Exploring Trauma, Therapy, and Transformative Journeys with Dr. Richard LaBrie

Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast, a platform dedicated to empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health. Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, a clinical psychologist, registered dietitian, fitness expert, and author of "Deprogram Diet Culture: Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind, and Live a Diet-Free Life," and Chantal Donnelly, a physical therapist and author of "Settled: How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing World," this podcast delves into the various facets of health and wellness.

In this episode, we continue our enlightening conversation with Dr. Richard LaBrie at the City Club Los Angeles. Dr. LaBrie, a seasoned clinical psychologist based in Pasadena, California, shares his extensive experience in psychotherapy, trauma therapy, and behavioral health. Known for his work with the FAA and Department of Homeland Security through Salas Solutions, Dr. LaBrie discusses his role in creating safety guidebooks for airports, covering crucial topics like mass shootings, insider threats, and mental health awareness.

Dr. LaBrie also reflects on his transformative journey from the entertainment industry to clinical psychology. He shares insights on the emotional and professional challenges he faced, the inspiration behind his career change, and the therapeutic approaches he employs to help clients navigate trauma, depression, anxiety, identity exploration, self-esteem issues, grief, and life transitions.

Throughout the podcast, Dr. LaBrie emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to mental health, integrating cognitive, behavioral, and somatic therapies to address clients' unique needs. He highlights the significance of nonverbal communication, internal boundaries, and the therapeutic relationship in fostering healing and growth.

Listeners will gain valuable insights into the complexities of trauma, the evolving understanding of mental health, and the practical strategies therapists use to support their clients. Dr. LaBrie also shares his admiration for influential works like "Attachment and Psychotherapy" and "The Body Keeps the Score," which have shaped his therapeutic perspective.

For those interested in learning more about Dr. Richard LaBrie or seeking his professional services, you can contact him through his Psychology Today profile.

Tune in to discover how Dr. LaBrie and our hosts, Dr. Supatra Tovar and Chantal Donnelly, explore the profound impact of therapy, the journey of self-discovery, and the pursuit of optimal health. Evolve with us as we unlock the keys to a healthier, more fulfilling life.

Thank you for joining us on this journey to wellness. Remember, the insights and advice shared on the ANEW Body Insight Podcast are for educational and informational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine. To learn more about the podcast and stay updated on new episodes, visit ANEW Body Insight Podcast at anew-insight.com. To watch this episode on YouTube, visit @my.anew.insight. Follow us on social media at @my.anew.insight on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads for more updates and insights. Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected with us for more empowering stories and expert guidance. Until next time, stay well and keep evolving with ANEW Body Insight!

Transcript

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Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast,

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empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health.

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Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, clinical psychologist,

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registered dietitian, fitness expert, and author of Deprogram Diet Culture:

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Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind, and Live a Diet-Free

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Life, and Chantal Donnelly, physical therapist and author of Settled:

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How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing World.

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Here at City Club Los Angeles, we follow our guests’ journey to optimal

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health, providing you with the keys to unlock your own wellness path.

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Tune in and evolve with us.

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We are back for the second half of our interview with Dr. Richard

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LaBrie at City Club Los Angeles.

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you, I am being told,

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are a senior advisor for the FAA

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and Department of Homeland Security.

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Are you allowed to tell us what you do with them, or will you have to kill us

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if you tell us? No, no, no.

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Well, Secondarily.

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So I work with a company called Salas Solutions.

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They are federal contractors who had some projects with the FAA,

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Federal Aviation Administration and Homeland Security on

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creating.

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We created guidebooks for, safety in airports.

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We did three of them over about a three year period.

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One was,

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regarding mass shooters at airports.

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One was regarding insider threats, which would be like organized crime

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or spies or unruly passengers in airports.

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And the third book was about mental health awareness in airports.

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And these were distributed to all of the employees and managers in airports.

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To help is like a training guide on some of these points.

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And, the team

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I was the psychologist on, the first one for mass shooters with the team involved,

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current and ex law enforcement, current

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and ex intelligence services, military, medicine,

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airport operators, and managers.

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And so everybody had chapters,

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covering, you know, how to prevent how to spot,

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possible mass shooter, how to react to,

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and then how to mitigate the damage and then how to recover from it.

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And it was interesting.

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And then it, it put me in touch with a lot of the,

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data on gun violence, which is really confusing

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and interesting and a big topic in today's,

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news.

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How did they, contact you?

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How did you get involved with, Salas Solutions?

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Oh, boy. This is one.

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so I was working on a case

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that appeared to involve some trafficking

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of the client and violence,

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and, the case got fairly scary,

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and I was at a point where, you know, in our ethics code, if we become

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lost on a case or if we

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feel in danger, we're allowed to refer the client out.

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That's not abandonment of the client. May feel like that.

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I got to a point on the case where I asked the client,

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can I get you to sign a consent form

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for me to find out if there is a danger developing here?

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Because I knew some people.

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I knew some people when I was making,

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an education film for the,

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Department of Energy.

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And I knew some people who worked in security

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and intelligence who guided me on that project,

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and I hadn't talked to them in about ten, you know, about seven years.

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And I was starting to get really frightened.

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There seemed to be a threat to the client.

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There were a lot of injuries.

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Client was bringing in, and, something was happening with my internet.

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I noticed some people around

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the offices and, and one time near my house

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and, so the client signed

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the consent form, and I reached out, and this is a little bit outside of scope.

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We're not really supposed to investigate, but in this case,

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it was to be able to continue the work with the client because we

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we were progressing in the work.

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and I found out the threat was moderately real.

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It was hard to put a finger on it.

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And so I got a lot of security,

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guidance from my friend

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who has this company Salas Solutions.

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And then once that settled, about four months later, he called me

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and he said, hey, we're doing this mass shooter thing, and we need, you know,

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a psychologist, somebody to bring the, psychological behavior angle, angle.

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And so I started doing that.

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And it is a great relationship.

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I really love those people. And,

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and it's great to be part of that team with.

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And I learned some.

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I mean, there are people on the team who do everything you could possibly

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imagine in terms of keeping the country safe.

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And, it's fascinating stuff.

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Yeah. It's great.

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That's great.

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I keep thinking about this journey that you've been on

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from all the work that you did in the entertainment industry.

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And, and then at 49, kind of going on this journey,

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I almost envision you as like a walking stick,

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kind of getting to your next phase, your next chapter in life.

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And I guess my question is that walking stick, what would that have been for you?

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Was there some advice

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or some knowledge that you wish you had had to help you on your journey?

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I was very focused.

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I will say that some of it,

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some of it really was rage like,

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like I carried a lot of rage from the film business.

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there's a lot of dysfunction, there's a lot of suffering that happens.

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amongst crew members and

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and creatives and,

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and I just had had it

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and I wasn't using my full potential, my,

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my creativity, my intelligence,

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my intuition regarding people.

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And I didn't feel like I was contributing much anymore.

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So it was kind of a

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I started hearing this mantra in my head,

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you know, like, if you I'll be a Dr..

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That was my stick.

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Does that resonate?

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He used the walking stick of rage on me plenty during.

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On you? Oh, God.

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No. It's.

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You know, he's the most peaceful person.

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You experienced a similar. You left

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that industry and and transformed

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your previous work in nutrition to.

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You know, that's.

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Exactly why is that. Does it resonate? Yeah. Right.

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Yeah.

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So yes I think the entertainment industry fills you with rage.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I

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and again, as an editor in sketch comedy, I ended up in the best place I could.

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it's nominated for two Emmys.

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The show eventually won one.

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and they were great people to work with.

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And the hours were great, which is unheard of. And,

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but I knew it wasn't going to be repeated.

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And most of the things I worked on, I had, you know, it's working with good people,

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but I could see in the periphery that

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the people with hair on fire emotionally.

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Right. And I didn't want to step into it. So

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I guess that was the walking stick.

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Well, you've had a lot of inspiration from your therapist.

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do you have inspiration outside of that in terms of books

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that you've read, podcasts, do you listen to things that you know

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have really resonated with you that you can share with us?

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the most important books I've read, I think, are Attachment and Psychotherapy.

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And also there is a book called,

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The Human Element,

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the Human Element of psychotherapy, a non-medical model by,

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I think, David Elkins.

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it's published by APA.

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It's a 118 pages of pure, slim

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race car brilliance about how the therapeutic relationship

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works, how it's not medicine, and it resonates with every,

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I guess, passion and,

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theoretical drive that I have in the business.

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also, I recommend Elizabeth Howell's work on,

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dissociation and trauma.

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And recently I was really inspired by her book and how she described that

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trauma models

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were already being discovered in the 1880s by,

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French neurologist and I think

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physician or psychologist.

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Charcot and Jenet.

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And then politics and infighting stepped in.

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Freud also saw the trauma history and in his patients.

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But he also was battling with,

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being a Jew in Vienna.

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And also he was working somewhat alone

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regarding like basically inventing the field.

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although he credits Joseph Broyer with inventing psychotherapy

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and so he was torn between are people having,

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you know, flash fantasies about the abuse they're saying they had?

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Are they just hysterical or did they actually experience abuse?

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And over time, battles happened.

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And then Sandor Firenze

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was able to validate that the patients they were seeing actually had been abused

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because some of the abusers were the same people that the patients were

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reporting.

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So without doing much investigation, he said, well, this isn't a fantasy.

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These people are real. This is happening.

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But already 20, 30, 40 years had passed.

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And then even today,

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we just saw the collapse of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation

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because, yeah, people who were claiming abuse

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and people who maybe were perpetrators of abuse

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were battling in the courts and the media was covering in such a way

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that some of the public would think, oh, that person's

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lying, that kind of trauma and abuse doesn't happen.

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It’s too outrageous.

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Well, we know it's happening now.

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And I credit,

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van der Kolk for that.

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And the body keeps the score.

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But that took until the 2000 for him to write that book and really clarify it

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for the public and clinicians that this is how trauma works.

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It comes from these precursors.

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It affects the body, it affects the mind.

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And then it's been furthered by Gabor Mate regarding,

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maybe trying to

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reformulate the word trauma into,

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you know, missteps and mishaps in attunement

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growing up and throughout our lives.

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And we all have that and kind of seeing people holistically through that lens.

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So it's that arc from Charcot

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and Jenet landing to where we are now that I'm inspired by.

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But I'm also frustrated that we had to wait 100 and

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almost 40 years to embrace

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trauma models that these two men saw in 1885, 1889.

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Yeah.

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so I'm glad, inspired and frustrated.

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But I'm a big Gabor Mate fan.

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Yeah, he's Canadian, so I have a soft spot for Canadians because I am too.

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But, I just finished.

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Well, it's been a while now since I finished reading The Myth of Normal. His.

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Have you read this?

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For our listeners, The Myth of Normal is a really great book,

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but it is a big book.

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You have to.

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I think it's about 400 pages, so

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you really have to be settled in on a nice rainy day to get into it.

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But it is really, I think his probably his last work.

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He wrote it with his son.

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and it's comprehensive and it's,

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a really nice sort of final, probably,

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explanation from his side of the world.

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For those who don't know, Gabor Mate is a trauma specialist,

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but also an addiction specialist.

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And he he really,

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like you said, like Body Keeps the Score.

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van der Kolk and and Gabor Mate have really brought

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collective trauma and individual trauma and how it all works into the forefront.

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And people are finally getting to understand what's going on with them.

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Right.

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Because we all walk around in the world going, what is this?

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Like him reacting this way?

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And it's people like that

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who who make it so tangible for us and help us understand.

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Yeah.

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Well we're about half hour in and we'd love to open up

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our audience. is with and who are with us right now.

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See if there's any questions anyone might have.

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We do have a question.

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Yay question.

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So you were talking about, like, holistic approaches

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to behavioral health, but I was wondering, like, when do you get to a point

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where you start using medications?

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well, as a psychologist, I can't prescribe,

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but I if a client asks about medication

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and they're not on it, I'll usually give a little bit of psycho ed.

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And by psychoeducation, I mean I'll,

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maybe answer

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questions about a certain medication that other clients have used.

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You know, clients

00:14:06:16 - 00:14:09:20
sometimes maybe a client will ask me, well, what have you heard about this?

00:14:09:20 - 00:14:11:17
And I'll say, well, I've had

00:14:11:17 - 00:14:14:17
a number of clients try it with different reactions.

00:14:15:21 - 00:14:19:00
I'll give them some general information about

00:14:20:11 - 00:14:24:20
kind of what to look for in your own side effects and, and also to

00:14:26:02 - 00:14:30:01
keep trying different kinds if you trust your psychiatrist

00:14:30:01 - 00:14:33:06
or your general practitioner, if they if they do prescribe.

00:14:33:22 - 00:14:36:18
and I also give them like the main

00:14:36:18 - 00:14:39:18
bit of psychoeducation, which is that

00:14:39:21 - 00:14:42:16
I see medication as the thing

00:14:42:16 - 00:14:48:06
that might get you on to the step stool that you need to stand on

00:14:48:06 - 00:14:52:05
in order to function in your life and continue in therapy.

00:14:52:19 - 00:14:55:00
But it's not a cure.

00:14:55:00 - 00:14:58:00
It's something that helps you manage the symptoms.

00:14:58:10 - 00:15:03:11
And in general, the research points to longer lasting outcomes

00:15:03:11 - 00:15:07:05
from psychotherapy combined with medication or psychotherapy alone.

00:15:07:22 - 00:15:11:00
Whereas medication tends to, often

00:15:11:00 - 00:15:14:08
diminish its impact because your body adjusts to it.

00:15:16:03 - 00:15:18:23
and also because it's not changing funding mental,

00:15:18:23 - 00:15:21:23
emotional, behavioral, cognitive,

00:15:22:18 - 00:15:24:17
patterns and, and even

00:15:24:17 - 00:15:28:00
neurological patterns that we may have developed throughout our whole life.

00:15:29:00 - 00:15:32:00
so I kind of start there and,

00:15:33:19 - 00:15:35:05
My clients, I don't know,

00:15:35:05 - 00:15:38:09
some of them are on meds often

00:15:38:09 - 00:15:41:09
they'll stop the meds,

00:15:41:11 - 00:15:43:11
you know, partway through our therapy.

00:15:43:11 - 00:15:45:19
And if they go through,

00:15:45:19 - 00:15:48:00
a situational change in their life, that's stressful.

00:15:48:00 - 00:15:50:21
They might go back on them.

00:15:50:21 - 00:15:53:12
most people don't want to stay on them.

00:15:53:12 - 00:15:56:14
I mean, there's, like, a natural inclination to want to get off

00:15:56:14 - 00:15:59:14
of them is my experience.

00:16:00:13 - 00:16:03:03
but I'm not pro or con.

00:16:03:03 - 00:16:05:12
I just try to

00:16:05:12 - 00:16:09:14
assist with, you know, facilitating the decision making process.

00:16:09:22 - 00:16:14:04
And then if they want me to consult with the psychiatrist or the physician, I will.

00:16:15:10 - 00:16:18:01
we're in a position to do what's called medication management,

00:16:18:01 - 00:16:21:01
because we'll see a client at least once a week,

00:16:21:03 - 00:16:24:12
whereas the psychiatrist might only see them once a month.

00:16:24:20 - 00:16:30:02
So we get to, see how compliant they are with following the prescription

00:16:30:10 - 00:16:34:07
and also ask them flat out, how are you doing with it?

00:16:34:08 - 00:16:36:08
Are you having side effects or are you seeing improvement?

00:16:37:20 - 00:16:41:03
and, and so I'll notate that and then work with the client.

00:16:41:11 - 00:16:44:19
So that covers that part hopefully of the holistic.

00:16:45:16 - 00:16:47:21
Any other questions out there.

00:16:47:21 - 00:16:49:15
And our lovely audience.

00:16:49:15 - 00:16:52:15
Oh we've got another one.

00:16:52:15 - 00:16:52:18
Good.

00:16:52:18 - 00:16:54:22
A question about your work with the FAA.

00:16:54:22 - 00:16:57:22
Was that prior to the Covid pandemic or afterwards?

00:17:01:02 - 00:17:05:06
it was prior and into and.

00:17:05:06 - 00:17:10:09
That that leads to my actual question is, is what changes did you see in behavior

00:17:10:18 - 00:17:15:03
from, from whether that was people on flights or in the airport?

00:17:15:21 - 00:17:20:08
after flights resumed, you know, in 2020?

00:17:20:12 - 00:17:21:17
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:21:17 - 00:17:26:09
We ended up adding sections to the mental health awareness book regarding Covid.

00:17:27:11 - 00:17:30:23
and then hopefully we wrote them in a general enough way

00:17:30:23 - 00:17:35:04
that they would apply to any pandemic or any any, you know, disease

00:17:35:04 - 00:17:39:06
issue, transmittable disease, transmissible disease issue.

00:17:39:12 - 00:17:41:07
on a plane, we dealt with,

00:17:42:08 - 00:17:45:08
client, passenger rage,

00:17:45:13 - 00:17:48:13
and we had to start talking about misinformation

00:17:48:16 - 00:17:51:11
and people's kind of frustration, emotional frustration

00:17:51:11 - 00:17:54:11
with lockdown.

00:17:54:14 - 00:17:57:23
you know, it kind of was a big conversation,

00:17:58:05 - 00:17:59:09
especially on the third one

00:17:59:09 - 00:18:02:08
with the mass shooter, one we really didn't have the active shooter,

00:18:02:08 - 00:18:07:03
one we really didn't have to consider because I think that was 2018.

00:18:08:12 - 00:18:10:23
insider threat was 2019 into 20.

00:18:10:23 - 00:18:12:08
And then we started to veer into it.

00:18:12:08 - 00:18:15:08
And mental health awareness was definitely during the pandemic.

00:18:16:21 - 00:18:18:11
and safety protocols changed.

00:18:18:11 - 00:18:22:00
Now talking about masks, talking about distancing,

00:18:24:00 - 00:18:26:17
and whether a particular

00:18:26:17 - 00:18:31:18
frustration in a, in a passenger was inherent to who they were,

00:18:31:19 - 00:18:37:02
they would be frustrated anyway or was compounded by the stresses of Covid.

00:18:37:20 - 00:18:40:09
So, you know, we did.

00:18:40:09 - 00:18:42:17
Did it carry beyond that?

00:18:42:17 - 00:18:45:17
You know, when things started to open up and we started to see

00:18:45:17 - 00:18:49:06
so much more rage on, airplanes and you.

00:18:49:18 - 00:18:52:04
I think we were I think we were done by then.

00:18:52:04 - 00:18:53:18
I think we had published it.

00:18:53:18 - 00:18:57:19
And, by the way, those those guidebooks are free on the internet.

00:18:57:19 - 00:18:58:06
You can,

00:18:59:07 - 00:19:00:16
if anybody's interested.

00:19:00:16 - 00:19:02:08
They're,

00:19:02:08 - 00:19:04:02
they're under the Safe Skies

00:19:04:02 - 00:19:07:13
banner, and, you know, they're they're all of them.

00:19:07:13 - 00:19:10:16
They're publicly funded. So, they belong

00:19:10:16 - 00:19:13:22
to the citizens of the U.S, so you can you can look them up.

00:19:15:13 - 00:19:16:20
Wonderful. Great.

00:19:16:20 - 00:19:19:10
Any other questions?

00:19:19:10 - 00:19:20:17
We do have another one.

00:19:20:17 - 00:19:22:07
Yeah.

00:19:22:07 - 00:19:25:07
Come on down to the microphone.

00:19:27:13 - 00:19:28:10
You mentioned

00:19:28:10 - 00:19:32:18
that the therapist would have an ethical obligation at times to perhaps

00:19:33:05 - 00:19:37:05
refer the client to another source of therapy.

00:19:38:03 - 00:19:40:09
or therapist.

00:19:40:09 - 00:19:43:09
when does the therapist realize

00:19:43:09 - 00:19:46:09
that they've gotten to that point?

00:19:46:12 - 00:19:50:12
and is there an expectation that therapy for a client

00:19:51:08 - 00:19:53:12
might be,

00:19:53:12 - 00:19:56:05
like one forever, or is there

00:19:56:05 - 00:19:59:05
an expectation that there would be a conclusion at some point?

00:19:59:14 - 00:20:03:11
So in our training, a big part of our training

00:20:03:11 - 00:20:07:11
is called attention to the person of the therapist.

00:20:08:01 - 00:20:09:09
And that's because we are,

00:20:11:11 - 00:20:11:14
if you

00:20:11:14 - 00:20:15:10
think about a, a painter, they have a palette

00:20:15:16 - 00:20:19:12
and they have their brushes, but it's the way they use them.

00:20:19:12 - 00:20:21:06
It's the way they hold the brush and move the brush.

00:20:21:06 - 00:20:25:07
And what how they make the vision in their head go on to the canvas.

00:20:26:02 - 00:20:29:19
And so we're trained in all of these types of treatment

00:20:29:19 - 00:20:31:02
and the diagnoses and things.

00:20:31:02 - 00:20:33:09
But we're really we are the artist.

00:20:33:09 - 00:20:39:01
We are the ones who are going to take those parts of the palette and apply them

00:20:39:04 - 00:20:42:21
with the client, and the client becomes a part of the creative process too

00:20:44:17 - 00:20:48:07
Hopefully, we have the insight to see that something's not working

00:20:49:02 - 00:20:54:01
and that it's not ethical to continue, or

00:20:54:14 - 00:20:58:07
if the client hits a certain type of topic that's triggering to us

00:20:58:07 - 00:21:01:21
and we can't get beyond the trigger through our own consultation

00:21:01:21 - 00:21:02:20
or our own therapy.

00:21:03:19 - 00:21:04:01
and it

00:21:04:01 - 00:21:08:10
starts to distort our thinking or whatever, or we're too distracted,

00:21:08:10 - 00:21:11:10
then we have an obligation to refer out.

00:21:13:06 - 00:21:14:20
I mean, it's pretty rare.

00:21:14:20 - 00:21:18:15
Yeah, I've, I've only referred out a couple of clients, and

00:21:18:15 - 00:21:23:20
it was very painful to do because it was they were very intense situations.

00:21:27:20 - 00:21:31:08
and what was the second part of the question?

00:21:31:08 - 00:21:32:23
It was,

00:21:32:23 - 00:21:35:23
oh, whether therapy would go on for forever.

00:21:38:05 - 00:21:41:17
In clinical training, we’re usually at places that have waiting lists

00:21:41:17 - 00:21:46:12
and there's a very kind of, concrete way of treating, and the supervisors

00:21:46:12 - 00:21:50:17
will often teach us how to terminate because that client is, quote, done.

00:21:52:03 - 00:21:55:03
as soon as you get in the private practice,

00:21:55:07 - 00:21:58:20
I don't know if you experienced the the first time I tried that with a client,

00:21:58:20 - 00:22:01:04
I checked in and said, well, do you think you've reached your goals?

00:22:01:04 - 00:22:02:16
Maybe we're looking at the end.

00:22:02:16 - 00:22:05:16
It hurt their feelings and I never did it again.

00:22:06:03 - 00:22:08:14
And I asked another supervisor, how do you do it?

00:22:08:14 - 00:22:12:01
And she said, I wait for the client to bring it up,

00:22:12:21 - 00:22:16:02
and if it seems too early, I'll let them know my feelings about it.

00:22:16:09 - 00:22:18:07
And if it seems right, we'll collaborate

00:22:18:07 - 00:22:21:08
on how to end the therapy and then we'll work towards that.

00:22:21:19 - 00:22:25:10
But I definitely have some clients that will probably be with me

00:22:25:10 - 00:22:27:04
for the rest of their lives or mine,

00:22:28:04 - 00:22:29:23
because

00:22:29:23 - 00:22:31:04
I get to do that.

00:22:31:04 - 00:22:32:14
I have a right to do that.

00:22:32:14 - 00:22:37:02
I'm not forced by a clinical director to clear my slate and bring it new people.

00:22:37:15 - 00:22:40:02
And there are some people who've just been through such

00:22:40:02 - 00:22:43:06
horror shows that the therapy creates a stability

00:22:43:06 - 00:22:46:06
that allows them to get through their life.

00:22:46:07 - 00:22:49:07
And there's another part of therapy that

00:22:50:05 - 00:22:52:16
this is why I sometimes bristle against that.

00:22:52:16 - 00:22:55:16
The clinical label that I carry with my degree.

00:22:57:17 - 00:23:00:23
Therapy is not only about curing a symptom.

00:23:01:10 - 00:23:04:00
Some people stay in therapy for a long time

00:23:04:00 - 00:23:07:10
because they hit one goal, and then they have another level

00:23:07:10 - 00:23:10:20
they want to reach in their life in terms of their own,

00:23:11:13 - 00:23:15:01
the old term self-actualization, realizing their goals.

00:23:15:12 - 00:23:19:10
And I stay in therapy a very long time because I will always

00:23:19:10 - 00:23:20:11
think of something else.

00:23:20:11 - 00:23:23:03
If it's not a problem, it's another goal.

00:23:23:03 - 00:23:26:22
And a therapeutic relationship is unique.

00:23:26:23 - 00:23:28:06
You can't get it from your family.

00:23:28:06 - 00:23:30:06
You can't get it from your partner.

00:23:30:06 - 00:23:35:01
It's sort of neutral and sort of not.

00:23:35:18 - 00:23:37:20
And it has a lot more room.

00:23:37:20 - 00:23:41:05
So sometimes I question myself and I think,

00:23:41:06 - 00:23:44:09
am I keeping my clients too long because they stay a really long time with me?

00:23:44:09 - 00:23:48:21
Usually, and then I have to comfort myself and say, I'm not a charlatan.

00:23:49:06 - 00:23:51:13
I look over at my closed file list,

00:23:52:14 - 00:23:53:07
my closed file

00:23:53:07 - 00:23:56:07
drawer, and it's filled with people who finished.

00:23:56:09 - 00:23:58:15
And I remind myself, okay,

00:23:58:15 - 00:24:03:05
I do complete the therapy, but it's not front of mind for me.

00:24:03:06 - 00:24:06:11
It's a very organic process.

00:24:09:10 - 00:24:13:05
I think people also think of therapy as self-care,

00:24:13:09 - 00:24:15:20
you know, just as you would go to the gym or,

00:24:15:20 - 00:24:18:12
you know, go get your nails done or something like that.

00:24:18:12 - 00:24:22:10
People tend to, you know, go to and stay in therapy

00:24:22:10 - 00:24:27:06
because it's providing them, you know, relief, from stress.

00:24:27:06 - 00:24:29:04
It's helping them problem solve.

00:24:29:04 - 00:24:32:14
It's helping them learn how to communicate better with their spouse.

00:24:32:14 - 00:24:35:15
And those kinds of things don't just have a natural end.

00:24:36:17 - 00:24:38:22
you know, we have things that come up all the time.

00:24:38:22 - 00:24:44:04
So I relate in that, you know, people who stay a long time in therapy, they,

00:24:44:04 - 00:24:48:01
you know, they rely on it for their their own self-care.

00:24:49:02 - 00:24:49:09
Yeah.

00:24:49:09 - 00:24:50:05
And some people

00:24:50:05 - 00:24:53:20
reach their goal and they're busy people and they want that hour back.

00:24:54:11 - 00:24:58:00
And so they, they finish and that's, that's also perfectly appropriate.

00:24:58:05 - 00:25:01:05
And maybe has more of a clinical lens.

00:25:04:00 - 00:25:06:01
I like to

00:25:06:01 - 00:25:08:10
I like when clients say this or when I ask.

00:25:08:10 - 00:25:11:01
But recently a client,

00:25:11:01 - 00:25:14:06
shared with me that they were talking with,

00:25:16:18 - 00:25:20:16
a supervisee a student, and they mentioned therapy,

00:25:20:16 - 00:25:23:16
and the student said, oh, oh, you're in therapy.

00:25:24:09 - 00:25:25:13
And the client said, yeah.

00:25:25:13 - 00:25:28:10
And the students said, what's it like?

00:25:28:10 - 00:25:31:19
And the client said, well, therapist doesn't really tell you what to do.

00:25:33:01 - 00:25:35:10
And the student said, really?

00:25:35:10 - 00:25:37:00
Well, what do they do?

00:25:37:00 - 00:25:40:00
And the client said,

00:25:40:05 - 00:25:43:05
I think he me

00:25:43:10 - 00:25:48:21
is filling in the gaps that were missed by my parents in a very slow,

00:25:50:13 - 00:25:52:05
gentle way.

00:25:52:05 - 00:25:55:02
And that was great for me to hear because I think it is what was happening

00:25:55:02 - 00:25:58:04
with that client and other clients would describe it differently.

00:25:58:13 - 00:26:02:01
And I love asking asking my clients that question.

00:26:02:01 - 00:26:03:06
They give me guidance,

00:26:03:06 - 00:26:06:12
sometimes just checking in and saying, how how is this going?

00:26:06:18 - 00:26:09:18
Should I make some adjustments or something?

00:26:10:18 - 00:26:14:14
and it helps me, and it's nice to hear what the style is

00:26:14:14 - 00:26:16:22
that the client's experiencing, because it might be different

00:26:16:22 - 00:26:20:14
from what, what I'm experiencing or what I think I'm doing.

00:26:21:01 - 00:26:25:20
And that's—I love that part of the field that I can't be arrogant

00:26:26:02 - 00:26:29:02
enough to understand what's impacting the client.

00:26:29:17 - 00:26:34:03
And that's why terminating asking a client about termination,

00:26:34:09 - 00:26:37:18
because I feel like something's not working can really surprise me,

00:26:37:18 - 00:26:40:11
because there's something else working that I didn't know about.

00:26:40:11 - 00:26:40:23
Right.

00:26:40:23 - 00:26:46:00
And so I'm very careful and very laid back about how to continue our end.

00:26:47:08 - 00:26:49:01
Well, speaking of end,

00:26:49:01 - 00:26:53:19
we have to terminate this podcast episode, but we really want to thank you,

00:26:54:06 - 00:26:57:18
Dr. LaBrie, for coming and being our first guest and

00:26:58:05 - 00:27:01:13
and sharing your journey, because that's the whole point of this,

00:27:01:13 - 00:27:04:23
is that we want to hear about your journey so that it inspires ours.

00:27:05:09 - 00:27:08:05
And we have gotten so much out of this today.

00:27:08:05 - 00:27:08:13
And, well.

00:27:08:13 - 00:27:09:19
Thank you for having me.

00:27:09:19 - 00:27:12:19
Yeah, yeah. Great questions.

00:27:13:03 - 00:27:14:15
Thank you everyone.

00:27:16:23 - 00:27:20:05
Thanks for tuning into the ANEW Body Insight podcast.

00:27:20:05 - 00:27:23:17
Please remember, the content shared on this podcast is for entertainment

00:27:23:17 - 00:27:26:18
purposes only and does not constitute medical advice.

00:27:27:04 - 00:27:28:06
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00:27:28:06 - 00:27:32:08
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00:27:32:13 - 00:27:36:18
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00:27:37:04 - 00:27:39:23
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00:27:39:23 - 00:27:43:21
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00:27:44:06 - 00:27:46:20
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