ANEW Body Insight
ANEW Body Insight aims to revolutionize the way we think about health and wellness. Co-hosts Dr. Supatra Tovar and Chantal Donnelly explore the symbiotic relationship between nutrition, fitness, and emotional well-being. this podcast seeks to inform, inspire, and invigorate listeners, encouraging them to embrace a more integrated approach to health.
Dr. Supatra Tovar is a clinical psychologist, registered dietitian, fitness expert, and founder of the holistic health educational company ANEW (Advanced Nutrition and Emotional Wellness). Dr. Tovar authored the book Deprogram Diet Culture: Rethink Your Relationship With Food, Heal Your Mind, and Live a Diet-Free Life to be published in September 2024 and created the revolutionary course Deprogram Diet Culture that aims to reformulate your relationship to food and heal your mind so you can live diet-free for life.
Chantal Donnelly is a physical therapist, bestselling author of Settled: How to Find Calm in a Stress-Inducing World, and founder of the wellness company Body Insight, a company dedicated to finding solutions to many of your body’s physical ailments. Chantal created the videos Pain Free at Work and Strong Knees.
ANEW Body Insight
Exploring Trauma, Therapy, and Transformative Journeys with Dr. Richard LaBrie
Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast, a platform dedicated to empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health. Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, a clinical psychologist, registered dietitian, fitness expert, and author of "Deprogram Diet Culture: Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind, and Live a Diet-Free Life," and Chantal Donnelly, a physical therapist and author of "Settled: How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing World," this podcast delves into the various facets of health and wellness.
In this episode, we continue our enlightening conversation with Dr. Richard LaBrie at the City Club Los Angeles. Dr. LaBrie, a seasoned clinical psychologist based in Pasadena, California, shares his extensive experience in psychotherapy, trauma therapy, and behavioral health. Known for his work with the FAA and Department of Homeland Security through Salas Solutions, Dr. LaBrie discusses his role in creating safety guidebooks for airports, covering crucial topics like mass shootings, insider threats, and mental health awareness.
Dr. LaBrie also reflects on his transformative journey from the entertainment industry to clinical psychology. He shares insights on the emotional and professional challenges he faced, the inspiration behind his career change, and the therapeutic approaches he employs to help clients navigate trauma, depression, anxiety, identity exploration, self-esteem issues, grief, and life transitions.
Throughout the podcast, Dr. LaBrie emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to mental health, integrating cognitive, behavioral, and somatic therapies to address clients' unique needs. He highlights the significance of nonverbal communication, internal boundaries, and the therapeutic relationship in fostering healing and growth.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the complexities of trauma, the evolving understanding of mental health, and the practical strategies therapists use to support their clients. Dr. LaBrie also shares his admiration for influential works like "Attachment and Psychotherapy" and "The Body Keeps the Score," which have shaped his therapeutic perspective.
For those interested in learning more about Dr. Richard LaBrie or seeking his professional services, you can contact him through his Psychology Today profile.
Tune in to discover how Dr. LaBrie and our hosts, Dr. Supatra Tovar and Chantal Donnelly, explore the profound impact of therapy, the journey of self-discovery, and the pursuit of optimal health. Evolve with us as we unlock the keys to a healthier, more fulfilling life.
Thank you for joining us on this journey to wellness. Remember, the insights and advice shared on the ANEW Body Insight Podcast are for educational and informational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine. To learn more about the podcast and stay updated on new episodes, visit ANEW Body Insight Podcast at anew-insight.com. To watch this episode on YouTube, visit @my.anew.insight. Follow us on social media at @my.anew.insight on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads for more updates and insights. Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected with us for more empowering stories and expert guidance. Until next time, stay well and keep evolving with ANEW Body Insight!
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Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast,
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empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health.
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Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, clinical psychologist,
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registered dietitian, fitness expert, and author of Deprogram Diet Culture:
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Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind, and Live a Diet-Free
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Life, and Chantal Donnelly, physical therapist and author of Settled:
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How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing World.
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Here at City Club Los Angeles, we follow our guests’ journey to optimal
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health, providing you with the keys to unlock your own wellness path.
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Tune in and evolve with us.
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We are back for the second half
of our interview with Dr. Richard
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LaBrie at City Club Los Angeles.
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you, I am being told,
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are a senior advisor for the FAA
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and Department of Homeland Security.
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Are you allowed to tell us what you do
with them, or will you have to kill us
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if you tell us? No, no, no.
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Well, Secondarily.
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So I work with a company
called Salas Solutions.
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They are federal contractors
who had some projects with the FAA,
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Federal Aviation
Administration and Homeland Security on
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creating.
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We created guidebooks
for, safety in airports.
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We did three of them over
about a three year period.
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One was,
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regarding mass shooters at airports.
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One was regarding insider threats,
which would be like organized crime
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or spies or unruly passengers in airports.
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And the third book was about mental health
awareness in airports.
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And these were distributed to all of the
employees and managers in airports.
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To help is like a training guide
on some of these points.
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And, the team
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I was the psychologist on, the first one
for mass shooters with the team involved,
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current and ex law enforcement, current
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and ex intelligence services,
military, medicine,
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airport operators, and managers.
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And so everybody had chapters,
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covering,
you know, how to prevent how to spot,
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possible mass shooter, how to react to,
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and then how to mitigate the damage
and then how to recover from it.
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And it was interesting.
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And then it, it
put me in touch with a lot of the,
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data on gun violence,
which is really confusing
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and interesting
and a big topic in today's,
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news.
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How did they, contact you?
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How did you get involved with, Salas Solutions?
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Oh, boy. This is one.
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so I was working on a case
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that appeared to involve some trafficking
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of the client and violence,
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and, the case got fairly scary,
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and I was at a point where,
you know, in our ethics code, if we become
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lost on a case or if we
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feel in danger,
we're allowed to refer the client out.
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That's not abandonment of the client.
May feel like that.
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I got to a point on the case
where I asked the client,
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can I get you to sign a consent form
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for me to find out
if there is a danger developing here?
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Because I knew some people.
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I knew some people when I was making,
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an education film for the,
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Department of Energy.
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And I knew some people
who worked in security
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and intelligence
who guided me on that project,
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and I hadn't talked to them in about ten,
you know, about seven years.
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And I was starting
to get really frightened.
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There seemed to be a threat to the client.
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There were a lot of injuries.
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Client was bringing in, and,
something was happening with my internet.
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I noticed some people around
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the offices and,
and one time near my house
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and, so the client signed
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the consent form, and I reached out,
and this is a little bit outside of scope.
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We're not really supposed to investigate,
but in this case,
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it was to be able to continue the work
with the client because we
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we were progressing in the work.
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and I found out
the threat was moderately real.
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It was hard to put a finger on it.
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And so I got a lot of security,
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guidance from my friend
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who has this company Salas Solutions.
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And then once that settled,
about four months later, he called me
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and he said, hey, we're doing this
mass shooter thing, and we need, you know,
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a psychologist, somebody to bring the,
psychological behavior angle, angle.
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And so I started doing that.
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And it is a great relationship.
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I really love those people. And,
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and it's great to be part of that team
with.
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And I learned some.
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I mean, there are people on the team
who do everything you could possibly
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imagine in terms
of keeping the country safe.
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And, it's fascinating stuff.
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Yeah. It's great.
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That's great.
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I keep thinking about this journey
that you've been on
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from all the work that you did
in the entertainment industry.
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And, and then at 49,
kind of going on this journey,
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I almost envision
you as like a walking stick,
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kind of getting to your next phase,
your next chapter in life.
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And I guess my question is that walking
stick, what would that have been for you?
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Was there some advice
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or some knowledge that you wish
you had had to help you on your journey?
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I was very focused.
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I will say that some of it,
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some of it really was rage like,
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like I carried a lot of rage from the film
business.
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there's a lot of dysfunction,
there's a lot of suffering that happens.
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amongst crew members and
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and creatives and,
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and I just had had it
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and I wasn't using my full potential, my,
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my creativity, my intelligence,
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my intuition regarding people.
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And I didn't feel like
I was contributing much anymore.
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So it was kind of a
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I started hearing this mantra in my head,
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you know, like, if you I'll be a Dr..
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That was my stick.
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Does that resonate?
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He used the walking stick of rage on me
plenty during.
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On you? Oh, God.
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No. It's.
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You know, he's the most peaceful person.
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You experienced a similar. You left
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that industry and and transformed
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your previous work in nutrition to.
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You know, that's.
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Exactly why is that. Does it
resonate? Yeah. Right.
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Yeah.
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So yes I think the entertainment
industry fills you with rage.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I
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and again, as an editor in sketch comedy,
I ended up in the best place I could.
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it's nominated for two Emmys.
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The show eventually won one.
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and they were great people to work with.
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And the hours were great,
which is unheard of. And,
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but I knew it wasn't going to be repeated.
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And most of the things I worked on, I had,
you know, it's working with good people,
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but I could see in the periphery that
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the people with hair on fire emotionally.
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Right.
And I didn't want to step into it. So
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I guess that was the walking stick.
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Well, you've had a lot of inspiration
from your therapist.
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do you have inspiration outside of that
in terms of books
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that you've read, podcasts,
do you listen to things that you know
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have really resonated with you
that you can share with us?
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the most important books I've read,
I think, are Attachment and Psychotherapy.
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And also there is a book called,
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The Human Element,
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the Human Element of psychotherapy,
a non-medical model by,
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I think, David Elkins.
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it's published by APA.
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It's a 118 pages of pure, slim
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race car brilliance
about how the therapeutic relationship
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works, how it's not medicine,
and it resonates with every,
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I guess, passion and,
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theoretical drive
that I have in the business.
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also, I recommend Elizabeth
Howell's work on,
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dissociation and trauma.
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And recently I was really inspired
by her book and how she described that
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trauma models
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were already being discovered
in the 1880s by,
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French neurologist and I think
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physician or psychologist.
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Charcot and Jenet.
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And then politics
and infighting stepped in.
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Freud also saw the trauma history
and in his patients.
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But he also was battling with,
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being a Jew in Vienna.
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And also he was working somewhat alone
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regarding
like basically inventing the field.
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although he credits Joseph Broyer
with inventing psychotherapy
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and so he was torn
between are people having,
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you know, flash fantasies about the abuse
they're saying they had?
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Are they just hysterical
or did they actually experience abuse?
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And over time, battles happened.
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And then Sandor Firenze
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was able to validate that the patients
they were seeing actually had been abused
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because some of the abusers were
the same people that the patients were
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reporting.
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So without doing much investigation,
he said, well, this isn't a fantasy.
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These people are real. This is happening.
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But already 20, 30, 40 years had passed.
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And then even today,
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we just saw the collapse
of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation
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because, yeah, people
who were claiming abuse
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and people
who maybe were perpetrators of abuse
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were battling in the courts
and the media was covering in such a way
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that some of the public would think, oh,
that person's
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lying, that kind of trauma
and abuse doesn't happen.
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It’s too outrageous.
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Well, we know it's happening now.
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And I credit,
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van der Kolk for that.
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And the body keeps the score.
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But that took until the 2000 for him
to write that book and really clarify it
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for the public and clinicians
that this is how trauma works.
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It comes from these precursors.
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It affects the body, it affects the mind.
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And then it's been furthered
by Gabor Mate regarding,
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maybe trying to
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reformulate the word trauma into,
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you know,
missteps and mishaps in attunement
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growing up and throughout our lives.
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And we all have that and kind of seeing
people holistically through that lens.
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So it's that arc from Charcot
00:11:27:08 - 00:11:31:23
and Jenet landing to where we are
now that I'm inspired by.
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But I'm also frustrated
that we had to wait 100 and
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almost 40 years to embrace
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trauma models
that these two men saw in 1885, 1889.
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Yeah.
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so I'm glad, inspired and frustrated.
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But I'm a big Gabor Mate fan.
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Yeah, he's Canadian, so I have a soft spot
for Canadians because I am too.
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But, I just finished.
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Well, it's been a while now since I
finished reading The Myth of Normal. His.
00:12:01:05 - 00:12:02:20
Have you read this?
00:12:02:20 - 00:12:05:17
For our listeners,
The Myth of Normal is a really great book,
00:12:05:17 - 00:12:08:17
but it is a big book.
00:12:08:17 - 00:12:09:11
You have to.
00:12:09:11 - 00:12:12:13
I think it's about 400 pages, so
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you really have to be settled in
on a nice rainy day to get into it.
00:12:17:03 - 00:12:22:13
But it is really,
I think his probably his last work.
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He wrote it with his son.
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and it's comprehensive and it's,
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a really nice sort of final, probably,
00:12:32:17 - 00:12:36:01
explanation from his side of the world.
00:12:36:11 - 00:12:39:19
For those who don't know, Gabor
Mate is a trauma specialist,
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but also an addiction specialist.
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And he he really,
00:12:45:06 - 00:12:48:06
like you said, like Body Keeps the Score.
00:12:48:07 - 00:12:52:00
van der Kolk
and and Gabor Mate have really brought
00:12:52:13 - 00:12:56:18
collective trauma and individual trauma
and how it all works into the forefront.
00:12:56:18 - 00:13:00:16
And people are finally getting
to understand what's going on with them.
00:13:00:16 - 00:13:01:02
Right.
00:13:01:02 - 00:13:03:12
Because we all walk around in the world
going, what is this?
00:13:03:12 - 00:13:05:22
Like him reacting this way?
00:13:05:22 - 00:13:07:01
And it's people like that
00:13:07:01 - 00:13:10:22
who who make it
so tangible for us and help us understand.
00:13:11:18 - 00:13:13:03
Yeah.
00:13:13:03 - 00:13:17:09
Well we're about half hour in
and we'd love to open up
00:13:17:19 - 00:13:22:12
our audience. is with
and who are with us right now.
00:13:22:18 - 00:13:25:13
See if there's any
questions anyone might have.
00:13:27:17 - 00:13:30:13
We do have a question.
00:13:30:13 - 00:13:32:18
Yay question.
00:13:32:18 - 00:13:36:07
So you were talking about, like,
holistic approaches
00:13:36:15 - 00:13:40:15
to behavioral health, but I was wondering,
like, when do you get to a point
00:13:40:15 - 00:13:43:15
where you start using medications?
00:13:44:19 - 00:13:48:00
well, as a psychologist,
I can't prescribe,
00:13:48:23 - 00:13:53:18
but I if a client asks about medication
00:13:53:18 - 00:13:56:21
and they're not on it, I'll
usually give a little bit of psycho ed.
00:13:57:13 - 00:14:00:13
And by psychoeducation, I mean I'll,
00:14:00:21 - 00:14:02:09
maybe answer
00:14:02:09 - 00:14:05:19
questions about a certain medication
that other clients have used.
00:14:05:19 - 00:14:06:16
You know, clients
00:14:06:16 - 00:14:09:20
sometimes maybe a client will ask me,
well, what have you heard about this?
00:14:09:20 - 00:14:11:17
And I'll say, well, I've had
00:14:11:17 - 00:14:14:17
a number of clients
try it with different reactions.
00:14:15:21 - 00:14:19:00
I'll give them some general information
about
00:14:20:11 - 00:14:24:20
kind of what to look for
in your own side effects and, and also to
00:14:26:02 - 00:14:30:01
keep trying different
kinds if you trust your psychiatrist
00:14:30:01 - 00:14:33:06
or your general practitioner,
if they if they do prescribe.
00:14:33:22 - 00:14:36:18
and I also give them like the main
00:14:36:18 - 00:14:39:18
bit of psychoeducation, which is that
00:14:39:21 - 00:14:42:16
I see medication as the thing
00:14:42:16 - 00:14:48:06
that might get you on to the step stool
that you need to stand on
00:14:48:06 - 00:14:52:05
in order to function in your life
and continue in therapy.
00:14:52:19 - 00:14:55:00
But it's not a cure.
00:14:55:00 - 00:14:58:00
It's something that helps
you manage the symptoms.
00:14:58:10 - 00:15:03:11
And in general, the research points
to longer lasting outcomes
00:15:03:11 - 00:15:07:05
from psychotherapy combined
with medication or psychotherapy alone.
00:15:07:22 - 00:15:11:00
Whereas medication tends to, often
00:15:11:00 - 00:15:14:08
diminish its impact
because your body adjusts to it.
00:15:16:03 - 00:15:18:23
and also because it's not changing
funding mental,
00:15:18:23 - 00:15:21:23
emotional, behavioral, cognitive,
00:15:22:18 - 00:15:24:17
patterns and, and even
00:15:24:17 - 00:15:28:00
neurological patterns that we may
have developed throughout our whole life.
00:15:29:00 - 00:15:32:00
so I kind of start there and,
00:15:33:19 - 00:15:35:05
My clients, I don't know,
00:15:35:05 - 00:15:38:09
some of them are on meds often
00:15:38:09 - 00:15:41:09
they'll stop the meds,
00:15:41:11 - 00:15:43:11
you know, partway through our therapy.
00:15:43:11 - 00:15:45:19
And if they go through,
00:15:45:19 - 00:15:48:00
a situational change in their life,
that's stressful.
00:15:48:00 - 00:15:50:21
They might go back on them.
00:15:50:21 - 00:15:53:12
most people don't want to stay on them.
00:15:53:12 - 00:15:56:14
I mean, there's, like,
a natural inclination to want to get off
00:15:56:14 - 00:15:59:14
of them is my experience.
00:16:00:13 - 00:16:03:03
but I'm not pro or con.
00:16:03:03 - 00:16:05:12
I just try to
00:16:05:12 - 00:16:09:14
assist with, you know,
facilitating the decision making process.
00:16:09:22 - 00:16:14:04
And then if they want me to consult with
the psychiatrist or the physician, I will.
00:16:15:10 - 00:16:18:01
we're in a position to do
what's called medication management,
00:16:18:01 - 00:16:21:01
because we'll see a client
at least once a week,
00:16:21:03 - 00:16:24:12
whereas the psychiatrist
might only see them once a month.
00:16:24:20 - 00:16:30:02
So we get to, see how compliant they are
with following the prescription
00:16:30:10 - 00:16:34:07
and also ask them flat out,
how are you doing with it?
00:16:34:08 - 00:16:36:08
Are you having side effects
or are you seeing improvement?
00:16:37:20 - 00:16:41:03
and, and so I'll
notate that and then work with the client.
00:16:41:11 - 00:16:44:19
So that covers that part
hopefully of the holistic.
00:16:45:16 - 00:16:47:21
Any other questions out there.
00:16:47:21 - 00:16:49:15
And our lovely audience.
00:16:49:15 - 00:16:52:15
Oh we've got another one.
00:16:52:15 - 00:16:52:18
Good.
00:16:52:18 - 00:16:54:22
A question about your work with the FAA.
00:16:54:22 - 00:16:57:22
Was that prior to the Covid
pandemic or afterwards?
00:17:01:02 - 00:17:05:06
it was prior and into and.
00:17:05:06 - 00:17:10:09
That that leads to my actual question is,
is what changes did you see in behavior
00:17:10:18 - 00:17:15:03
from, from whether that was people
on flights or in the airport?
00:17:15:21 - 00:17:20:08
after flights resumed, you know, in 2020?
00:17:20:12 - 00:17:21:17
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:21:17 - 00:17:26:09
We ended up adding sections to the mental
health awareness book regarding Covid.
00:17:27:11 - 00:17:30:23
and then hopefully
we wrote them in a general enough way
00:17:30:23 - 00:17:35:04
that they would apply to any pandemic
or any any, you know, disease
00:17:35:04 - 00:17:39:06
issue, transmittable disease,
transmissible disease issue.
00:17:39:12 - 00:17:41:07
on a plane, we dealt with,
00:17:42:08 - 00:17:45:08
client, passenger rage,
00:17:45:13 - 00:17:48:13
and we had to start talking
about misinformation
00:17:48:16 - 00:17:51:11
and people's kind of frustration,
emotional frustration
00:17:51:11 - 00:17:54:11
with lockdown.
00:17:54:14 - 00:17:57:23
you know, it
kind of was a big conversation,
00:17:58:05 - 00:17:59:09
especially on the third one
00:17:59:09 - 00:18:02:08
with the mass shooter, one
we really didn't have the active shooter,
00:18:02:08 - 00:18:07:03
one we really didn't have to consider
because I think that was 2018.
00:18:08:12 - 00:18:10:23
insider threat was 2019 into 20.
00:18:10:23 - 00:18:12:08
And then we started to veer into it.
00:18:12:08 - 00:18:15:08
And mental health awareness
was definitely during the pandemic.
00:18:16:21 - 00:18:18:11
and safety protocols changed.
00:18:18:11 - 00:18:22:00
Now talking about masks,
talking about distancing,
00:18:24:00 - 00:18:26:17
and whether a particular
00:18:26:17 - 00:18:31:18
frustration in a, in a passenger
was inherent to who they were,
00:18:31:19 - 00:18:37:02
they would be frustrated anyway or
was compounded by the stresses of Covid.
00:18:37:20 - 00:18:40:09
So, you know, we did.
00:18:40:09 - 00:18:42:17
Did it carry beyond that?
00:18:42:17 - 00:18:45:17
You know, when things started to open up
and we started to see
00:18:45:17 - 00:18:49:06
so much more rage on, airplanes and you.
00:18:49:18 - 00:18:52:04
I think we were
I think we were done by then.
00:18:52:04 - 00:18:53:18
I think we had published it.
00:18:53:18 - 00:18:57:19
And, by the way, those those guidebooks
are free on the internet.
00:18:57:19 - 00:18:58:06
You can,
00:18:59:07 - 00:19:00:16
if anybody's interested.
00:19:00:16 - 00:19:02:08
They're,
00:19:02:08 - 00:19:04:02
they're under the Safe Skies
00:19:04:02 - 00:19:07:13
banner, and,
you know, they're they're all of them.
00:19:07:13 - 00:19:10:16
They're publicly funded. So, they belong
00:19:10:16 - 00:19:13:22
to the citizens of the U.S, so you can
you can look them up.
00:19:15:13 - 00:19:16:20
Wonderful. Great.
00:19:16:20 - 00:19:19:10
Any other questions?
00:19:19:10 - 00:19:20:17
We do have another one.
00:19:20:17 - 00:19:22:07
Yeah.
00:19:22:07 - 00:19:25:07
Come on down to the microphone.
00:19:27:13 - 00:19:28:10
You mentioned
00:19:28:10 - 00:19:32:18
that the therapist would have
an ethical obligation at times to perhaps
00:19:33:05 - 00:19:37:05
refer the client
to another source of therapy.
00:19:38:03 - 00:19:40:09
or therapist.
00:19:40:09 - 00:19:43:09
when does the therapist realize
00:19:43:09 - 00:19:46:09
that they've gotten to that point?
00:19:46:12 - 00:19:50:12
and is there an expectation
that therapy for a client
00:19:51:08 - 00:19:53:12
might be,
00:19:53:12 - 00:19:56:05
like one forever, or is there
00:19:56:05 - 00:19:59:05
an expectation that there would be
a conclusion at some point?
00:19:59:14 - 00:20:03:11
So in our training,
a big part of our training
00:20:03:11 - 00:20:07:11
is called attention
to the person of the therapist.
00:20:08:01 - 00:20:09:09
And that's because we are,
00:20:11:11 - 00:20:11:14
if you
00:20:11:14 - 00:20:15:10
think about a, a painter,
they have a palette
00:20:15:16 - 00:20:19:12
and they have their brushes,
but it's the way they use them.
00:20:19:12 - 00:20:21:06
It's the way
they hold the brush and move the brush.
00:20:21:06 - 00:20:25:07
And what how they make the vision
in their head go on to the canvas.
00:20:26:02 - 00:20:29:19
And so we're trained
in all of these types of treatment
00:20:29:19 - 00:20:31:02
and the diagnoses and things.
00:20:31:02 - 00:20:33:09
But we're really we are the artist.
00:20:33:09 - 00:20:39:01
We are the ones who are going to take
those parts of the palette and apply them
00:20:39:04 - 00:20:42:21
with the client, and the client becomes
a part of the creative process too
00:20:44:17 - 00:20:48:07
Hopefully, we have the insight to see that
something's not working
00:20:49:02 - 00:20:54:01
and that it's not ethical to continue, or
00:20:54:14 - 00:20:58:07
if the client hits a certain type of topic
that's triggering to us
00:20:58:07 - 00:21:01:21
and we can't get beyond the trigger
through our own consultation
00:21:01:21 - 00:21:02:20
or our own therapy.
00:21:03:19 - 00:21:04:01
and it
00:21:04:01 - 00:21:08:10
starts to distort our thinking
or whatever, or we're too distracted,
00:21:08:10 - 00:21:11:10
then we have an obligation to refer out.
00:21:13:06 - 00:21:14:20
I mean, it's pretty rare.
00:21:14:20 - 00:21:18:15
Yeah, I've, I've only referred out
a couple of clients, and
00:21:18:15 - 00:21:23:20
it was very painful to do because it was
they were very intense situations.
00:21:27:20 - 00:21:31:08
and what was the second part
of the question?
00:21:31:08 - 00:21:32:23
It was,
00:21:32:23 - 00:21:35:23
oh, whether therapy would go on
for forever.
00:21:38:05 - 00:21:41:17
In clinical training, we’re usually
at places that have waiting lists
00:21:41:17 - 00:21:46:12
and there's a very kind of, concrete
way of treating, and the supervisors
00:21:46:12 - 00:21:50:17
will often teach us how to terminate
because that client is, quote, done.
00:21:52:03 - 00:21:55:03
as soon as you get
in the private practice,
00:21:55:07 - 00:21:58:20
I don't know if you experienced the
the first time I tried that with a client,
00:21:58:20 - 00:22:01:04
I checked in and said, well,
do you think you've reached your goals?
00:22:01:04 - 00:22:02:16
Maybe we're looking at the end.
00:22:02:16 - 00:22:05:16
It hurt their feelings
and I never did it again.
00:22:06:03 - 00:22:08:14
And I asked another supervisor,
how do you do it?
00:22:08:14 - 00:22:12:01
And she said, I
wait for the client to bring it up,
00:22:12:21 - 00:22:16:02
and if it seems too early,
I'll let them know my feelings about it.
00:22:16:09 - 00:22:18:07
And if it seems right, we'll collaborate
00:22:18:07 - 00:22:21:08
on how to end the therapy
and then we'll work towards that.
00:22:21:19 - 00:22:25:10
But I definitely have some clients
that will probably be with me
00:22:25:10 - 00:22:27:04
for the rest of their lives or mine,
00:22:28:04 - 00:22:29:23
because
00:22:29:23 - 00:22:31:04
I get to do that.
00:22:31:04 - 00:22:32:14
I have a right to do that.
00:22:32:14 - 00:22:37:02
I'm not forced by a clinical director
to clear my slate and bring it new people.
00:22:37:15 - 00:22:40:02
And there are some people
who've just been through such
00:22:40:02 - 00:22:43:06
horror
shows that the therapy creates a stability
00:22:43:06 - 00:22:46:06
that allows them
to get through their life.
00:22:46:07 - 00:22:49:07
And there's another part of therapy that
00:22:50:05 - 00:22:52:16
this is why I sometimes
bristle against that.
00:22:52:16 - 00:22:55:16
The clinical label
that I carry with my degree.
00:22:57:17 - 00:23:00:23
Therapy
is not only about curing a symptom.
00:23:01:10 - 00:23:04:00
Some people stay in therapy
for a long time
00:23:04:00 - 00:23:07:10
because they hit one goal,
and then they have another level
00:23:07:10 - 00:23:10:20
they want to reach in their life
in terms of their own,
00:23:11:13 - 00:23:15:01
the old term self-actualization,
realizing their goals.
00:23:15:12 - 00:23:19:10
And I stay in therapy a very long time
because I will always
00:23:19:10 - 00:23:20:11
think of something else.
00:23:20:11 - 00:23:23:03
If it's not a problem, it's another goal.
00:23:23:03 - 00:23:26:22
And a therapeutic relationship is unique.
00:23:26:23 - 00:23:28:06
You can't get it from your family.
00:23:28:06 - 00:23:30:06
You can't get it from your partner.
00:23:30:06 - 00:23:35:01
It's sort of neutral and sort of not.
00:23:35:18 - 00:23:37:20
And it has a lot more room.
00:23:37:20 - 00:23:41:05
So sometimes I question myself
and I think,
00:23:41:06 - 00:23:44:09
am I keeping my clients too long because
they stay a really long time with me?
00:23:44:09 - 00:23:48:21
Usually, and then I have to comfort myself
and say, I'm not a charlatan.
00:23:49:06 - 00:23:51:13
I look over at my closed file list,
00:23:52:14 - 00:23:53:07
my closed file
00:23:53:07 - 00:23:56:07
drawer,
and it's filled with people who finished.
00:23:56:09 - 00:23:58:15
And I remind myself, okay,
00:23:58:15 - 00:24:03:05
I do complete the therapy,
but it's not front of mind for me.
00:24:03:06 - 00:24:06:11
It's a very organic process.
00:24:09:10 - 00:24:13:05
I think people also think of therapy
as self-care,
00:24:13:09 - 00:24:15:20
you know,
just as you would go to the gym or,
00:24:15:20 - 00:24:18:12
you know, go get your nails done
or something like that.
00:24:18:12 - 00:24:22:10
People tend to, you know, go to
and stay in therapy
00:24:22:10 - 00:24:27:06
because it's providing them,
you know, relief, from stress.
00:24:27:06 - 00:24:29:04
It's helping them problem solve.
00:24:29:04 - 00:24:32:14
It's helping them learn how to communicate
better with their spouse.
00:24:32:14 - 00:24:35:15
And those kinds of things
don't just have a natural end.
00:24:36:17 - 00:24:38:22
you know,
we have things that come up all the time.
00:24:38:22 - 00:24:44:04
So I relate in that, you know, people
who stay a long time in therapy, they,
00:24:44:04 - 00:24:48:01
you know, they rely on it
for their their own self-care.
00:24:49:02 - 00:24:49:09
Yeah.
00:24:49:09 - 00:24:50:05
And some people
00:24:50:05 - 00:24:53:20
reach their goal and they're busy people
and they want that hour back.
00:24:54:11 - 00:24:58:00
And so they, they finish and that's,
that's also perfectly appropriate.
00:24:58:05 - 00:25:01:05
And maybe has more of a clinical lens.
00:25:04:00 - 00:25:06:01
I like to
00:25:06:01 - 00:25:08:10
I like when clients say this
or when I ask.
00:25:08:10 - 00:25:11:01
But recently a client,
00:25:11:01 - 00:25:14:06
shared with me that they were talking
with,
00:25:16:18 - 00:25:20:16
a supervisee a student,
and they mentioned therapy,
00:25:20:16 - 00:25:23:16
and the student
said, oh, oh, you're in therapy.
00:25:24:09 - 00:25:25:13
And the client said, yeah.
00:25:25:13 - 00:25:28:10
And the students said, what's it like?
00:25:28:10 - 00:25:31:19
And the client said, well, therapist
doesn't really tell you what to do.
00:25:33:01 - 00:25:35:10
And the student said, really?
00:25:35:10 - 00:25:37:00
Well, what do they do?
00:25:37:00 - 00:25:40:00
And the client said,
00:25:40:05 - 00:25:43:05
I think he me
00:25:43:10 - 00:25:48:21
is filling in the gaps that were missed
by my parents in a very slow,
00:25:50:13 - 00:25:52:05
gentle way.
00:25:52:05 - 00:25:55:02
And that was great for me to hear
because I think it is what was happening
00:25:55:02 - 00:25:58:04
with that client and other clients
would describe it differently.
00:25:58:13 - 00:26:02:01
And I love asking asking my clients
that question.
00:26:02:01 - 00:26:03:06
They give me guidance,
00:26:03:06 - 00:26:06:12
sometimes just checking in and saying,
how how is this going?
00:26:06:18 - 00:26:09:18
Should I make some adjustments
or something?
00:26:10:18 - 00:26:14:14
and it helps me,
and it's nice to hear what the style is
00:26:14:14 - 00:26:16:22
that the client's experiencing,
because it might be different
00:26:16:22 - 00:26:20:14
from what, what I'm experiencing or what
I think I'm doing.
00:26:21:01 - 00:26:25:20
And that's—I love that
part of the field that I can't be arrogant
00:26:26:02 - 00:26:29:02
enough to understand
what's impacting the client.
00:26:29:17 - 00:26:34:03
And that's why terminating
asking a client about termination,
00:26:34:09 - 00:26:37:18
because I feel like something's
not working can really surprise me,
00:26:37:18 - 00:26:40:11
because there's something else
working that I didn't know about.
00:26:40:11 - 00:26:40:23
Right.
00:26:40:23 - 00:26:46:00
And so I'm very careful and very laid back
about how to continue our end.
00:26:47:08 - 00:26:49:01
Well, speaking of end,
00:26:49:01 - 00:26:53:19
we have to terminate this podcast episode,
but we really want to thank you,
00:26:54:06 - 00:26:57:18
Dr. LaBrie, for coming
and being our first guest and
00:26:58:05 - 00:27:01:13
and sharing your journey,
because that's the whole point of this,
00:27:01:13 - 00:27:04:23
is that we want to hear about your journey
so that it inspires ours.
00:27:05:09 - 00:27:08:05
And we have gotten so much out of this
today.
00:27:08:05 - 00:27:08:13
And, well.
00:27:08:13 - 00:27:09:19
Thank you for having me.
00:27:09:19 - 00:27:12:19
Yeah, yeah. Great questions.
00:27:13:03 - 00:27:14:15
Thank you everyone.
00:27:16:23 - 00:27:20:05
Thanks for tuning into the ANEW Body Insight podcast.
00:27:20:05 - 00:27:23:17
Please remember, the content shared on this podcast is for entertainment
00:27:23:17 - 00:27:26:18
purposes only and does not constitute medical advice.
00:27:27:04 - 00:27:28:06
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00:27:28:06 - 00:27:32:08
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00:27:32:13 - 00:27:36:18
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00:27:37:04 - 00:27:39:23
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00:27:39:23 - 00:27:43:21
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00:27:44:06 - 00:27:46:20
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