Healing Through Dance and Responsive Body Practicing with Deborah Rosen, AMFT | ANEW Body Insight Podcast

Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast, hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, clinical psychologist, registered dietitian, fitness expert, and author of "Deprogram Diet Culture," alongside Chantal Donnelly, physical therapist and author of "Settled." Join us as we delve into the intricate connections between mental and physical health, offering valuable insights and practical advice.

In this episode, we are delighted to feature Deborah Rosen, an Associate Marriage and Family Therapist (AMFT) specializing in trauma and body-based practices. Deborah brings a wealth of knowledge and experience, focusing on healing trauma through responsive body practicing. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the autonomic nervous system and its role in mental health. Her therapeutic approach integrates body-based practices, helping clients achieve comprehensive well-being and healing.

Deborah discusses her journey into trauma therapy, sharing how her personal experiences and professional training have shaped her practice. She highlights the significance of creating a safe and supportive therapeutic environment tailored to each client's unique needs. Throughout the conversation, she explains how responsive body practicing can regulate the autonomic nervous system, reduce stress, and promote overall mental health. Deborah provides practical strategies for incorporating these practices into daily life, making them accessible and beneficial for everyone.

For those interested in exploring more about Deborah Rosen's work and her approach to therapy, you can find detailed information and contact her through her profile on Psychology Today. Deborah's dedication to combining body-based practices with traditional therapy offers a unique and effective pathway for trauma healing and improving mental health.

Tune in to this insightful episode of the ANEW Body Insight podcast as Deborah Rosen shares her expertise on responsive body practicing, trauma therapy, and achieving mental and emotional well-being. Discover practical strategies, learn about her professional journey, and gain valuable insights into the benefits of integrating body-based practices into therapeutic settings.

Key Topics Covered in This Episode:

• Introduction to Deborah Rosen and her background in trauma therapy
• The journey that led Deborah to specialize in trauma and body-based practices
• The critical role of the autonomic nervous system in mental health
• Understanding responsive body practicing and its therapeutic benefits
• Practical strategies for incorporating body-based practices into daily routines
• Creating a safe and supportive therapeutic environment for clients
• Tailoring therapy to meet individual needs and circumstances
• Achieving mental and emotional well-being through holistic, integrative practices

Join us on this enriching journey to optimal health and wellness. Tune in, subscribe, and e

Thank you for joining us on this journey to wellness. Remember, the insights and advice shared on the ANEW Body Insight Podcast are for educational and informational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine. To learn more about the podcast and stay updated on new episodes, visit ANEW Body Insight Podcast at anew-insight.com. To watch this episode on YouTube, visit @my.anew.insight. Follow us on social media at @my.anew.insight on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads for more updates and insights. Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected with us for more empowering stories and expert guidance. Until next time, stay well and keep evolving with ANEW Body Insight!

Transcript

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Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast,

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empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health.

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Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, clinical psychologist, registered dietitian,

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fitness expert and author of Deprogram Diet Culture:

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Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind, and Live a Diet-Free

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Life, and Chantal Donnelly, physical therapist and author of Settled:

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How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing World.

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Here at City Club Los Angeles, we follow our guests’ journey

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to optimal health you with the keys to unlock your own wellness path.

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Tune in and evolve with us.

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Welcome back to the ANEW Body Insight podcast.

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We are back for the second half of our interview with Responsive Body

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Practitioner Debora Rosen, AMFT at City Club Los Angeles.

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Debra gave us some illuminating information on how responsive body

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work and dance can heal

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certain mental disorders and release trauma stored in the body.

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We are eager to learn more.

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So, Deborah, can you tell us what sorts of mental disorders

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can be helped with responsive body work and with dance?

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So, I have had the opportunity to work with a few folks

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that are who are diagnosed with bipolar,

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schizophrenia,

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depression and PTSD.

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And I have had

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the chance to incorporate

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body work with, with them.

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And it does show,

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an impact.

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It does.

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I see the difference in how they like.

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Relate to themselves and even to me about,

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you know, being able to even, like, look at me,

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especially like my few bipolar folks, you know,

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that's usually kind of like, you know, and just and,

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and they do take medication, you know, there's that, you know, that's

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also helping them, that's, you know,

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But when I initially started working with them, there was like

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this kind of disconnect and

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like I said, not even really able to look, you know, not that you're going to stare

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someone the whole time, but just the feeling comfortable enough

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to sit up taller,

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to present more openly,

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to be willing to receive what I have to offer, even,

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you know, which is really been amazing that they trust

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and trusted in me to, you know, work that way.

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I have,

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I remember working with this one gentleman.

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He actually wasn't diagnosed, but I would like to, like,

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just share this one because,

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I mean, he did deal with a lot of depression and,

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He had he was addicted

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to, drugs for quite some time, but,

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he was very focused, and he took to the,

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like, the mind body works so brilliantly,

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and, I don't know, maybe he was just ready and he was available,

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you know, because there's that. Right.

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You know, some people,

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you know,

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and we had talked about so many different things

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about his childhood and, you know, presently

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what was happening and things that he, you know, he struggled from anxiety.

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and I remember one time said, you know, I

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he said to me, I really feel like we need to go back to,

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reflecting on my childhood and talking more about that,

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I said, okay, you know, he told me this at the end of one session.

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So I was like, great. So next week I'm going to make sure I do that right.

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And I remember thinking about it, you know, like before we met and

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because he had taken so well to the bodywork, you know,

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I thought, okay,

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I'm going to have him sit down

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on the mat and,

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And I said, so I would really love you

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to close your eyes, take a moment to,

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you know, connect with your breath, you know, feel the ground underneath you.

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And now.

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And I gave him a moment, you know, just to sit in.

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And then I said, now I really would love you to embody that nine year old boy.

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And he went there.

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I mean, you know, for everybody it's different,

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you know, you don't know.

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but he did seem like he would be available for that.

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So I tried and,

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and he was able to, like, express all these things

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that he needed to talk about and get out and be honest about about his parents.

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And he loved his parents. He loved them.

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But there was struggles.

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There was things, there was difficulties. And

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and he needed to name it.

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And, I mean, boy, did he start to really thrive after that.

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Even more so.

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Even more so because he was already thriving

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like we had already, like, I mean, you know,

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not that anxiety completely goes away all the time, you know?

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I mean, like, but but he had gotten to a place where he was feeling very solid

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and then capable to like, okay, this is what's happening to me

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and not just have tools to like, deal with it,

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you know, like get into your senses, which is awesome too.

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I mean, that's also body related, right?

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But sometimes we deal with the five senses

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to try to get someone like grounded in the here and now.

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Right.

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But to go deeper than that, besides that,

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you know,

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to like really be able to check in with knowing

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and being your true authentic self in all of it,

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you know, knowing that that's okay too, and trusting that, you know, it's like

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kind of rebuilding trust within yourself, which is a really beautiful thing.

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So like, I just had to show that one because I was like, so up for him.

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It's beautiful when it works.

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You have been through quite a journey.

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and the last podcast we talked about how you started out

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as a dancer and Pilates instructor,

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and then you moved on to getting the therapy piece,

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breaking down piece and then you,

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intuitively and wonderfully added

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that body of somatic therapy piece.

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If you could go back in time

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and start again, is there a piece of information,

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is there some advice?

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Is there anything that you wish you had way back then that you could have made

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this journey be maybe a little easier or a little faster, a little more efficient?

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I think the faster would have been nice.

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Like just knowing like realizing it.

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but I also honor that I, I'm where I'm at now.

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You know,

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I just didn't realize it, I didn't know.

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What do you mean by knowing.

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It came to me later

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in life after experiences that had significant impact on me.

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That really helped me reflect

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on where I wanted to go. And,

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I so wish I would have known sooner. Sure.

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It would have been great.

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You know, like, would would know more now or, you know, I mean, because to me, it's

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a it's going to be a continuous process, this whole thing,

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But that's okay.

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I mean, I've always been a late bloomer, actually, and I accept that about myself.

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And it's the right

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time for you when you were most receptive to learning. Perhaps, yeah.

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something that really inspired you,

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to go down that route and you had experienced pain.

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You had experienced loss? Yes.

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That that, you know, just helps you be a better therapist.

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You were just you have much more experience now.

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Yeah.

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Am I choreography actually went that way too.

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I think,

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I meant to share this before about you.

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Oh, I think one of the questions was about how did dance help heal me, right.

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And okay, we already covered that, right.

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But when I started to choreograph,

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I would choreograph pieces that related to

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what was going on in my life.

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And one piece was about my dad passing and,

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I don't even know

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honestly how that piece came together because I was such an like this kind of.

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Oh, but,

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when it came to

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fruition and we like, presented it.

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And then I spoke to people afterwards,

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I really was like, wow,

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that was like such the journey to help me, like,

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cope with that loss, understand

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my feelings more.

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It was beautiful.

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I saw it.

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It. Was absolutely beautiful.

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And and that was my first one to. Yes.

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Seeing Deborah go through this especially, you know, we learned in the last,

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half of the podcast that her dad passed away the night before.

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A couple days.

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Two days before her, her wedding, which was devastating.

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But what was amazing about her wedding was that it was one of the saddest

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and happiest things I've ever experienced in my life.

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It started out very reverentially with the memorial for her father,

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and by the end of the night, we were dancing like crazy people

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and it was the most beautiful celebration

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of the most beautiful wedding I've ever been to.

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And that came out in her dance piece.

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Her dance piece was really, an homage to him.

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It was a release of all of this pain

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and this, you know, sadness.

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But it was also uplifting, and it was one of the most beautiful dance

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performances I've ever seen.

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And it's a testament to what, you know, art can do for us as people,

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and it can help us heal, it can help us be better people.

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And you do that through your choreography.

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I think sharing stories is important.

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And that's the way I share stories.

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I mean, I did another piece that had to do with me

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having a hard time getting pregnant.

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but it was it was an inspiring piece in the sense that it was titled Junone.

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Juno, the goddess of marriage and and birth.

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And I felt that it was my way

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of being really hopeful about it and being positive about it and

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and seeing the beauty of what, what can maybe be even though,

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like, you know, that passed and it still took time.

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But I also found my way of getting there, which was also beautiful.

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So and then my last piece was

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called Fragmented and it actually dove into mental health.

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And the.

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Finding ways to express

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I mean, I gave the dancers like they they contributed to the choreography.

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And you know, in the if you're going to do something like a piece like that, that's

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it has to do with mental health.

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You're not going to be like, here's the movements.

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Or like, you know, the movement needs to come from from them

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and how they feel because their stories

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were being brought to the choreography.

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And so even though we didn't know, say,

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the specifics of their stories, their emotions

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fully came out on stage.

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And it was amazing when I like when it came to like the full piece,

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I was actually like, wow, okay, we did this.

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and they,

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they were like, I mean, they really put it out there.

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And I would give them cues about like, where in your body do you feel,

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you know, what's your what's your story is and what you're dealing with.

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And one girl had just lost her dad.

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Another woman had, lost her husband

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a few years back. and.

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I know that was part of their story, but, like, you know, like

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they it gave them the opportunity to just, like, really be in there.

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And not that you want to, like,

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showcase things like that in general, but it was just more about like

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actually community two and like, how can we really be with one another?

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And it kind of,

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reflected on like witnessing one another and listening and being available

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was incorporated in the choreography, too, like in the staging and everything.

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And that was like, I don't know, it just turned out really nice. And

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I would actually like to revisit that.

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Being that I'm like in mental health and, you know,

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and that I believe in the somatic,

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you know, approach to dealing with it

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full circle.

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Well, if someone didn't have access to therapy with you,

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how would they incorporate dance movement

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into their own practice to help themselves heal?

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Well, I would go the practical route first off and and say,

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hey, you know, there are folks out there that you can,

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like the American Dance Therapy Association has a directory right online,

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and you can look up your area and see about connecting to a dance therapist.

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And same with Somatics. You can do similar thing.

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And there's so many different programs there though, like

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I mean you could go to the Responsive

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Body, ah website, and it does have all of us listed as practitioners.

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So you know, there's other folks there for that too.

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I do find that most people don't

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think about their body, though, when it comes to therapy.

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And, I mean, I can only hope

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that they might seek something that's,

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you know, that makes them active.

00:14:02:24 - 00:14:04:22
because it doesn't have to be dance necessarily, right?

00:14:04:22 - 00:14:05:17
It could be swimming.

00:14:05:17 - 00:14:06:18
It could be hiking.

00:14:06:18 - 00:14:09:18
It could be,

00:14:10:02 - 00:14:11:28
gosh, so many different things that, you know,

00:14:11:28 - 00:14:13:26
somebody likes to do and be active with.

00:14:13:26 - 00:14:17:01
It just gives them that some kind of movement.

00:14:17:24 - 00:14:18:14
of course I do

00:14:18:14 - 00:14:22:01
think dance and Somatics is very powerful.

00:14:22:28 - 00:14:25:20
and it and partly because it's, it can be so expressive.

00:14:25:20 - 00:14:26:00
Right.

00:14:26:00 - 00:14:28:10
Because if you're doing golf or if you're doing swimming, you know,

00:14:28:10 - 00:14:31:10
there is that it does help move, help you move.

00:14:32:06 - 00:14:37:22
But, you know, with my experience in contemporary modern dance,

00:14:38:03 - 00:14:43:03
there's that, you know, expressive aspect that I think is so powerful

00:14:43:03 - 00:14:47:19
and so key and so and can be so available really if you go there.

00:14:48:07 - 00:14:49:01
Yeah.

00:14:49:01 - 00:14:51:07
All right. Last question. You're ready?

00:14:53:14 - 00:14:55:06
This is an easy one I think.

00:14:55:06 - 00:14:56:27
What is lighting you up right now.

00:14:56:27 - 00:14:59:05
It doesn't have to be professional. It can be personal.

00:14:59:05 - 00:15:01:27
What are you really passionate about right now okay.

00:15:01:27 - 00:15:04:27
So that is decently easy, yeah.

00:15:06:18 - 00:15:08:20
So I really want to get into neuro

00:15:08:20 - 00:15:12:12
affective touch because I feel that touch is super key as well.

00:15:13:00 - 00:15:16:01
And so that's my next route on my journey

00:15:16:01 - 00:15:19:01
here with body.

00:15:19:07 - 00:15:21:23
And in my personal life,

00:15:21:23 - 00:15:25:03
I will say that I have a seven year old

00:15:25:03 - 00:15:28:12
that inspires me, like on a daily basis.

00:15:29:11 - 00:15:32:11
And he

00:15:33:12 - 00:15:35:07
but he he's able to say to

00:15:35:07 - 00:15:38:07
me, well, mom, I did that because.

00:15:38:07 - 00:15:38:20
I was.

00:15:38:20 - 00:15:41:16
Feeling and I was like, what?

00:15:41:16 - 00:15:43:21
You were what you're feeling.

00:15:43:21 - 00:15:46:20
I never did things like that or talked to my parents like that.

00:15:46:20 - 00:15:50:06
And I just like, like knock, you know, that

00:15:51:10 - 00:15:54:09
my husband and I are making that kind of impression, you know?

00:15:54:09 - 00:15:56:03
I mean, he sees us get upset and like,

00:15:56:03 - 00:15:59:03
you know, impatient and all those things too, but,

00:15:59:27 - 00:16:03:05
that we were able to go, you know, hey, and apologize for it

00:16:03:05 - 00:16:06:19
even and, and, and share how we were feeling

00:16:07:18 - 00:16:10:09
and that we modeled that

00:16:10:09 - 00:16:13:06
and I honestly, I'm telling you, I have a kid who can tell me how he feels,

00:16:13:06 - 00:16:16:13
which is, I think, amazing at seven years old is amazing.

00:16:16:16 - 00:16:17:28
You know?

00:16:17:28 - 00:16:19:28
And he's pretty cute. Yeah.

00:16:19:28 - 00:16:21:16
To top it all off.

00:16:21:16 - 00:16:24:16
Well, we love to open up,

00:16:24:16 - 00:16:29:01
the, podcast for some questions from our audience.

00:16:29:21 - 00:16:32:27
So I don't know if anyone has a question.

00:16:32:27 - 00:16:35:27
If you have one, please come down to the mic.

00:16:35:29 - 00:16:37:28
We have a question. Coming up yay..

00:16:39:28 - 00:16:46:05
Hi there. I was really taken with 

00:16:46:19 - 00:16:47:04
some of what 

00:16:47:04 - 00:16:50:04
You talking about with the  parallels between

00:16:50:25 - 00:16:53:25
and the patterns in dance and movement and the energetic exchange

00:16:53:26 - 00:16:56:26
of that at the patterns in dance

00:16:56:27 - 00:16:59:10
and then like families systems

00:16:59:10 - 00:17:01:12
and communities and group dynamics

00:17:01:12 - 00:17:04:12
so I think it could be really interesting to hear more about

00:17:04:12 - 00:17:11:19
so I think it could be really interesting to hear more about

00:17:11:19 - 00:17:16:06
when one person experiences what you’ve witnessed around that, when you’ve worked with people

00:17:16:06 - 00:17:21:20
and seen them change

00:17:21:20 - 00:17:22:07
I love that question.

00:17:22:07 - 00:17:25:20
because Responsive Body is about actually making an impact

00:17:25:20 - 00:17:30:02
on community and encourages folks to find their community,

00:17:30:17 - 00:17:32:15
you know, because we all need that, right?

00:17:32:15 - 00:17:33:12
You know, that's a key thing.

00:17:33:12 - 00:17:36:12
And we live in such like a big world where sometimes that's hard to

00:17:36:14 - 00:17:39:14
to have,

00:17:40:09 - 00:17:44:03
and I'm not sure I'm gonna answer that question further in any way except that

00:17:44:03 - 00:17:48:06
I have had like a few experiences moving with the responsive body folks

00:17:48:22 - 00:17:51:16
where we have these, like discussions afterwards.

00:17:51:16 - 00:17:54:01
So like, we go through these body maps with the facilitator

00:17:54:01 - 00:17:57:03
and do our dealio and like, let it out and all this.

00:17:57:03 - 00:18:00:12
And she gives us these different cues and, you know,

00:18:00:12 - 00:18:05:04
it gets us really kind of moving and, and, and it does provoke

00:18:05:17 - 00:18:10:17
the attention to the energies and sharing space and each other.

00:18:10:17 - 00:18:11:25
Again, like I had said earlier,

00:18:11:25 - 00:18:13:14
like you might not even know each other very well,

00:18:13:14 - 00:18:16:12
but there's there becomes a comfort in all of that.

00:18:16:12 - 00:18:18:28
You just move together. You just shared like that

00:18:19:29 - 00:18:22:18
vulnerability to be in space together.

00:18:22:18 - 00:18:25:23
And I remember thinking like, and we had shared this

00:18:25:23 - 00:18:28:23
in one of our last,

00:18:29:01 - 00:18:32:17
gatherings about could you imagine

00:18:33:11 - 00:18:36:11
if there was a facilitator who did something like that

00:18:37:07 - 00:18:41:15
in our politics and before, like a big group of important people

00:18:41:29 - 00:18:44:29
met to discuss something really vital,

00:18:45:08 - 00:18:48:23
and if they did something that was more somatic together, first,

00:18:50:13 - 00:18:52:27
how they might shift,

00:18:52:27 - 00:18:56:12
how they deal with that big thing,

00:18:57:15 - 00:19:01:14
I honestly think it would have a really huge impact.

00:19:03:03 - 00:19:06:03
I think it makes people feel more human

00:19:06:21 - 00:19:09:21
and more accepting and.

00:19:11:22 - 00:19:14:22
Hopefully more humane.

00:19:17:04 - 00:19:17:16
Beautiful.

00:19:17:16 - 00:19:20:16
Snapping yeah.

00:19:20:23 - 00:19:23:23
do we have any other questions?

00:19:24:17 - 00:19:27:17
Don't be shy.

00:19:30:24 - 00:19:31:22
that was good question.

00:19:31:22 - 00:19:34:09
Thank you. It was a very good question. I know that,

00:19:35:12 - 00:19:36:07
you know, to

00:19:36:07 - 00:19:40:16
to tag along at the end of her answer for you.

00:19:40:27 - 00:19:44:12
I do think that, when one person heals,

00:19:45:08 - 00:19:48:05
it does help the system to heal.

00:19:48:05 - 00:19:51:25
I see it with families of my clients all the time.

00:19:52:09 - 00:19:56:06
Once they learn how to better regulate their emotions

00:19:56:06 - 00:20:00:20
or be more objective, or be more compassionate and empathetic,

00:20:01:04 - 00:20:04:06
they start to see changes happen in their family.

00:20:04:19 - 00:20:06:20
They they usually come to me and say, well,

00:20:06:20 - 00:20:09:20
you know, there's no way I can ever change my family.

00:20:10:02 - 00:20:13:02
And I'm like, well, yeah, that's true ish.

00:20:13:13 - 00:20:17:17
But once you start to change, you're going to start to see change around you.

00:20:17:17 - 00:20:19:18
And that's what usually happens.

00:20:19:18 - 00:20:22:22
It's the energetic shift that the family feels

00:20:23:03 - 00:20:26:24
where you're no longer in your kind of prescribed roles.

00:20:27:17 - 00:20:31:02
whether you're, you know, a scapegoat or you're the black sheep

00:20:31:02 - 00:20:35:09
or you have a problem, kid, once you stop being the problem kid

00:20:35:14 - 00:20:39:11
has the system has to change, the system has to evolve.

00:20:39:25 - 00:20:45:13
And usually what we'll see is they'll evolve upward with their,

00:20:45:13 - 00:20:49:18
you know, that the sick one who's in therapy and I always, you know,

00:20:49:18 - 00:20:55:10
put that in quotes because usually the one who comes to therapy is, is sometimes

00:20:55:10 - 00:20:58:18
the most sensitive one in the family or the one who's really, like,

00:20:59:11 - 00:21:04:01
disturbed about the dynamics that they're experiencing in the family,

00:21:04:10 - 00:21:07:10
even if they might not necessarily be the sick one.

00:21:07:12 - 00:21:08:14
They're the feeler.

00:21:08:14 - 00:21:09:14
They're the feeler.

00:21:09:14 - 00:21:15:01
And once the feeler starts to heal, then everyone else seems to follow suit.

00:21:15:01 - 00:21:16:24
That calm becomes contagious.

00:21:18:04 - 00:21:21:04
Yep. Well,

00:21:21:13 - 00:21:24:13
we are pretty much out of time.

00:21:24:23 - 00:21:27:05
Yeah. We're right on time.

00:21:27:05 - 00:21:29:19
but we really want to thank you, Deborah.

00:21:29:19 - 00:21:34:21
It was very inspiring to hear your story and it was very heartfelt.

00:21:34:21 - 00:21:39:13
And we all, you know, could feel you, your pain,

00:21:39:13 - 00:21:42:13
but also your inspiration towards

00:21:42:15 - 00:21:45:04
this journey to become a healer.

00:21:45:04 - 00:21:46:18
we don't take that lightly.

00:21:46:18 - 00:21:49:20
It's a, horrible thing

00:21:49:20 - 00:21:53:17
that you experienced losing your father and going through what you went through.

00:21:54:02 - 00:21:56:25
But we're so grateful that you are out

00:21:56:25 - 00:21:59:29
there, helping people because of that.

00:22:00:08 - 00:22:03:00
And so that's how I think a lot of,

00:22:03:00 - 00:22:06:00
pain can be turned into beauty.

00:22:06:23 - 00:22:10:01
So thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

00:22:10:09 - 00:22:12:20
Oh, so we're so lucky.

00:22:12:20 - 00:22:15:25
And thank you, everyone for tuning into the ANEW Body

00:22:15:25 - 00:22:18:25
Insight podcast at City Club Los Angeles.

00:22:19:05 - 00:22:22:04
We look forward to our next exciting interview

00:22:22:04 - 00:22:26:06
and hope you can join in and tune in and evolve with us.

00:22:26:15 - 00:22:27:21
Thank you so much! Thank you everyone.

00:22:31:11 - 00:22:35:09
Thanks for tuning into the ANEW Body Insight podcast.

00:22:35:18 - 00:22:39:03
Please remember, the content shared on this podcast is for entertainment

00:22:39:03 - 00:22:42:04
purposes only and does not constitute medical advice.

00:22:42:16 - 00:22:43:19
You can find us anywhere

00:22:43:19 - 00:22:47:21
podcasts are streaming on YouTube at my @my.anew.insight

00:22:47:27 - 00:22:52:04
and at anew-insight.com under the ANEW Body Insight podcast tab.

00:22:52:17 - 00:22:56:06
Follow us on our socials @my.anew.insight on Facebook,

00:22:56:06 - 00:22:58:00
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00:22:58:00 - 00:22:59:18
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00:22:59:18 - 00:23:02:07
Tune in next time and evolve with us.