Embracing Mindfulness with Donald Altman: Insights from a Mindfulness Guru on ANEW Body Insight Podcast Episode 21

Tune into a profound journey of mindfulness and transformation in the 21st episode of the ANEW Body Insight podcast, featuring celebrated Mindfulness Guru Donald Altman, MA LPCC. This episode delves deep into the life and career of Donald Altman, offering listeners an intimate look at his path to becoming a renowned expert in mindfulness and mindful eating.

Discover the philosophies and practices that have shaped Donald's approach to life and wellness. Whether you're new to mindfulness or looking to deepen your practice, this episode provides valuable insights into how mindfulness can radically improve your relationship with food and overall quality of life. Throughout the episode, Donald shares practical tips for integrating mindfulness into daily routines, fostering a sense of peace and fulfillment.

Listeners will also learn about the transformative power of letting go and surrendering in the context of eating and personal health. This dialogue aims to empower you to lead a more mindful, balanced, and serene life, regardless of the stresses that come your way.

Don’t miss this chance to gain from Donald Altman's extensive experience and gentle wisdom. Perfect for those interested in personal development, mental health, and holistic wellness, this episode is a must-listen. Click the link in our bio to watch and listen to the full discussion, and explore how you can start your journey toward a more mindful existence.

For more about Donald Altman  and his work, visit his website https://mindfulpractices.com/ and follow him on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mndfulpractices/ Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/MndfulPractices/ LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/donald-altman-m-a-lpc-50a01125/  Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJUHHD1Sw0hjcSBG6jZppzw 

Enhance your life by rejecting the dieting cycle and embracing a diet-free life with our 'Deprogram Diet Culture' online course available at anew-insight.com. Join us in transforming your approach to wellness and discover the power of true mindfulness with ANEW Body Insight.

Thank you for joining us on this journey to wellness. Remember, the insights and advice shared on the ANEW Body Insight Podcast are for educational and informational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine. To learn more about the podcast and stay updated on new episodes, visit ANEW Body Insight Podcast at anew-insight.com. To watch this episode on YouTube, visit @my.anew.insight. Follow us on social media at @my.anew.insight on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads for more updates and insights. Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected with us for more empowering stories and expert guidance. Until next time, stay well and keep evolving with ANEW Body Insight!

Transcript

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Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast,


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empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health.


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Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, clinical psychologist,


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registered dietitian, fitness expert and author of Deprogram Diet Culture:


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Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind and Live a Diet-Free Life,


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and Chantal Donnelly, physical therapist and author of Settled:


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How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing world.


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We follow our guests’ journey to optimal health,


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providing you with the keys to unlock your own wellness path.


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Tune in and evolve with us.


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Hello and welcome to the ANEW Body
Insight podcast.


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I am Dr Supatra Tovar and sadly
we do not have my co-host Chantal


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Donnelly with us today,


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but she is with us in spirit
and we are carrying on in her honor.


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We are so honored


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and excited to have mindfulness expert.


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I want to say mindfulness guru and award


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winning author Donald
Altman with us today.


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Thank you, Dojnald for joining us.


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Hey, Supatra, it's great to be here
and, you know, just to see you again.


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I know we we've spoken before
and that was a lot of fun.


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So it's it's good to be here.


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Yeah.


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We're doing a show swap and I love it
because yes,


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I was on Donald's show, and it's amazing.


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and he agreed to come on mine,


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and that was,
you know, just made my whole month.


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So I'm going to read a little bit
about Donald.


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He's amazing.


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Get ready for the bio of a century,


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and then we're going to get right
into our questions.


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Donald Altman
MA, LPC is an international mindfulness


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expert, psychotherapist, award
winning author, and former Buddhist monk


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who is known nationally
and internationally for his acclaimed


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books, speaking and workshops.


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He writes the Practical Mindfulness blog
for Psychology Today and has authored


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over 15 books that have been translated
into languages worldwide.


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His books have won several awards.


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The Mindfulness Toolbox won two national


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Ben Franklin Publishing Gold Awards
as the best book in


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both the Psychology
and Body Mind Spirit categories.


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Clearing Emotional Clutter was selected


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as one of the Best
Spiritual books of 2016.


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While The Mindfulness Code was selected
as one of the best


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spiritual books of 2010.


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Donald was featured
as an expert in the Mindfulness Movie


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and is profiled
in the Living Spiritual Teachers Project.


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He has presented at international
and national conferences from the CFA


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Institute's International Conference
to the Psychotherapy Network Symposium,


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one of the premier national conferences


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for those in the psychology
and counseling fields.


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His mindful
eating program, 12 Weeks to Mindful


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Eating, has been taught
in the US, Canada and Australia.


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He also has another one down the pipe,


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which I endorsed just recently
and we will talk about soon.


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Donald, you are amazing.


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You are a guru. Oh thank you.


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Thank you so, so much for being here.


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Okay.


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you know, it's funny,
as I was listening to you read that,


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I was thinking, you know,
if you stay with something long enough,


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you could really accomplish
whatever you want.


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So it really shows,
if you're lucky to live a long life


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and you stay focused, and,
you know, you're the work you're doing.


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I just want to say is wonderful.


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And your book, Deprogram Diet
Culture is fabulous, and I, I know


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it's going to be coming out very shortly,
and I hope everybody gets a copy of that.


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Yeah.


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I think by the time we air your episode,
it will have launched,


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and I am exceptionally excited for it.


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And Donald
also offered an endorsement for my book.


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And it I when I got it, I,
I like fell on the floor.


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I was so honored and so excited
to have somebody of your stature


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and caliber to endorse my book.


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So thank you so much, Donald.


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Oh my pleasure.


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Yes. So let's get into our questions.


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I cannot wait to pick your brain.


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I've been wanting to do this
for a long time, so you have been


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a very significant figure
in the mindfulness community for so long.


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I really want to know
about your inspiration story.


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What started you out in the mindfulness
field?


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I know you were a Buddhist monk,
but how did that,


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you know, background shift
all the way to where you are?


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You know, an internationally recognized
mindfulness expert?


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How did it all begin?


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Well, it was really a lot of curves.


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I couldn't have predicted it myself
Supatra.


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And, I think it really,
going into mindfulness,


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I have to credit my mindlessness for that,


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Ditto! And the suffering
that I went through in life,


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I mean, we all have to deal with different
pain and and losses in life.


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And I had some repeating negative patterns


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that I was wondering, you know,
who brought this can of worms, right.


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Totally!


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And I was lucky
I had some good therapists,


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but I also felt that I wanted to


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somehow, look deeper within.


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And I had the occasion
to meet a friend who had me meet,


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a Burmese monk who would come


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to this country in the late
70s was a well known teaching monk.


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And when I met him,
I was just really touched


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by the sense of compassion
and availability that he had.


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I mean, growing up, really
what I'd have to call some of the mean


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streets of Chicago, as I did,


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I didn't
I had never met anybody like this.


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And so, I was really touched by it.


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And then when I went through another
one of those, painful patterns in my life


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and I had the time to,


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you know, look more deeply,


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I thought, you know,
I really need to go in.


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And I found out I could ordain as a monk
with U Silananda .


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And that was his name,
the venerable U Silananda  as the sayadaw


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or the head of the monastery,
which was in was a Burmese monastery


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in Southern California,
just outside the San Bernardino Mountains.


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Wow, that's close to me.


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Well, it was all.


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And it was all Burmese monks in that
monastery, with the exception of myself.


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And I learned so much
from that experience,


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just of surrender,
of letting go and letting go.


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and also facing a lot of my worries,


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you know, when I was very much


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an emotional eater
before I went into the monastery


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and I really worried


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that I wouldn't be able to,


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be able to go through the experience there


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because they would have an early
they were very regimented with food.


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And I don't mean regimented
in a strict way, really, but it served


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a purpose from 2600 years ago
when the Buddhist and his monks,


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they would have a very early morning
breakfast, like 630 to 7 in the morning.


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Well, and then they would
go out into the community now with us.


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The community


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actually brought us our meals
because there was


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a Burmese community around
where the monastery was.


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And and then we would have a lunch


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from 11 to noon,
but you wouldn't eat after that.


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And, and so,


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the day I went in to take my vows,
I had a I the day before


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I went and I should say,
I had my my last meal.


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What was it, your last binge too


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Last bingeing meal? Yeah.


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And, I was amazed that I think it was


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because of the the concentration
and the focus that you had.


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The food never became an issue for me.


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while I was in the monastery.


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And, of course, you know,
they were also not rigid.


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If you felt you were weak
or you needed some juice


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or some tea in the afternoon, you could
you could have something to drink


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like that.


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So, then that's what I loved.


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It wasn't,


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rigid, even though,


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feel Ananda was a very traditional, monk.


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but, you know,
he still had that compassion.


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And, you know,
if you needed to sit a different way,


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if your back or your knees were hurting,
you could shift your position.


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And he said, always just do so mindfully.


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So it was a lot of compassion.


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Yeah, a lot of compassion
that was baked in to the whole experience.


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And so I, I discovered
that I could tolerate that.


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But also, you know, it's funny
because when I first, you go through it's


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a, it's amazing
this, several hour long ceremony that


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and as a, as a monk


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in the, as the terror
of the old school of Buddhism,


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you take about 250 vows, you know,
you're not going to sit on a high chair,


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you're not going to,


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you know, do all these things and,


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but, and,
you know, also, you're not going to misuse


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food, you're not going to


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you take different precepts and things
like that to that you take our vows.


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Yeah.


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That, you know, and what I learned from


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that was when I,
when I got back in to the room,


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then they brought myself
and two other novice monks into the room.


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We were we were going to be staying.


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There were three mattresses on the floor.


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And I think you'll get a kick out of this.


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is that I got my first lesson
in mindfulness.


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So I sat on one of those futons
and they didn't tell us where to sit.


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I just sat on one,


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and I'm suddenly feeling that kind of,
I guess I call it monks buyer's remorse.


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What?


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What did I get into? What?


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What have I done here? You know that,


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this sure seemed like a good idea
when I was going through my difficult pain


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and whatnot and wanted to learn
more anyway, so I was sitting there


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and, And I turned to my left,
and I noticed there was a shelving unit.


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And on that shelving unit, it was one of
those giant Cadbury's chocolate bars.


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Now, when I saw that chocolate bar,
you know it


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having been an emotional eater
and using food to comfort


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me, I really in that moment
I thought somebody set me up.


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That was actually my first thought.
Somebody,


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you know, put me in on this futon.


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They set me up with their food.


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I mean, it was ridiculous, really, right?


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But that was the first thought I had.


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And then


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I watched the war in my head,


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in my mind, because I had taken a vow
not to eat after 12 noon.


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So where I couldn't distract myself
or go out like I normally


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might have,
or gotten some food from the fridge,


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I had to sit with my vow
and watch my thoughts, right? Yes.


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And the one side said, oh, you, you know,
you took this while the other side


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said, oh,
you know, the other monks aren’t looking.


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You could have the chocolate bar.
It'll make you feel better.


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And so, you know, you watch it.


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How many times have we all had
that struggle that in the internal war,


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you know, they say the angel on the devil
on your shoulder, right?


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But it's very much feels like that
when you're, engaged in that.


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And then suddenly I must have sat there
for like, an hour in this


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internal struggle when suddenly something
there was a shift and all of a sudden,


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it's as if I had,


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opened up and become spacious enough
to hold all of that,


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to hold on the one side, the,
you know, the took this fall and and also


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and also I want this chocolate bar
to be okay with all of it.


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Yes. Almost like you're kind
of observing yourself,


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seeing those two choices,
but you're not necessarily in it.


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You're just observing it.


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Yeah.


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That was the that was a huge shift.


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And it was very liberate
sitting in that moment.


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And that was my first,


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real experience with just


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being mindfully aware
of watching yourself.


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That's why
I think mindfulness is so powerful.


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It gives everybody
it's really about self agency.


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You know, we talk about that
in the mental health field. Yes.


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you know, do you feel that
you have the agency, the, you know, the,


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the energy to move forward in your life
and the self empowerment to do so?


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And that's what mindfulness,


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what I learned really is
it gives you that kind of empowerment.


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And it's something you're doing
for yourself.


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Right? Yes.


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and it is good to have a guide for it.


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I mean, not everybody does, but,


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books can be guides
or real teachers could be guides.


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U Silananda 
and some of the other monks were for me,


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even when I left the monastery
or one of the monks, became


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a good friend of mine, and and,
he now has his own monastery.


00:13:16:09 - 00:13:20:01
But he he is an amazing scholar.


00:13:20:01 - 00:13:24:06
But he's continued to, you know,
to work with me after I left the monastery


00:13:24:09 - 00:13:27:24
to do different things
like, loving kindness, practice


00:13:27:24 - 00:13:31:23
and work on that and different mantras
and so forth. Yes.


00:13:31:23 - 00:13:33:10
Oh, I love it.


00:13:33:10 - 00:13:37:02
And if you could give our listeners


00:13:37:02 - 00:13:41:06
just a little piece of what life was like
before that,


00:13:41:09 - 00:13:45:08
you were saying that you grew up
on the mean streets of Chicago.


00:13:45:12 - 00:13:48:03
Yeah. What
what was your life actually like?


00:13:48:03 - 00:13:52:02
Because now you're completely transformed.


00:13:52:08 - 00:13:55:23
And I do think that that you know, I,
I can say that personally for myself,


00:13:55:23 - 00:13:59:12
mindfulness has transformed me
over the years that I have been


00:13:59:12 - 00:14:00:10
practicing that.


00:14:00:10 - 00:14:03:23
And I really feel like
I was a different person in the past.


00:14:04:09 - 00:14:08:21
What how would you have described yourself
besides an emotional eater in the past?


00:14:09:09 - 00:14:12:07
Well, I would describe myself
as also maybe, you know,


00:14:13:06 - 00:14:16:00
not being very compassionate,


00:14:16:00 - 00:14:19:07
you know, being,
more on the surface of things.


00:14:20:14 - 00:14:23:18
and, an example of that was
I lived in a beautiful


00:14:23:18 - 00:14:26:18
beach community called Redondo Beach and,


00:14:27:13 - 00:14:29:12
Southern California for a while.


00:14:29:12 - 00:14:32:04
And I remember when I was coming up, the—that’s by me as well.


00:14:32:04 - 00:14:35:07
Oh, yeah, this is, you know,
this was before I went into the monastery.


00:14:35:07 - 00:14:39:13
And I remember
I walking up to the grocery store that was


00:14:39:21 - 00:14:41:00
it was a beautiful little community.


00:14:41:00 - 00:14:42:24
So I could walk to the grocery store.


00:14:42:24 - 00:14:46:08
And there was a homeless
lady, very unkempt.


00:14:46:08 - 00:14:48:06
And she had her shopping cart.


00:14:48:06 - 00:14:51:18
And I remember it was like
I didn't have compassion for her.


00:14:51:18 - 00:14:53:15
I was like, oh, you know what?


00:14:53:15 - 00:14:54:14
She's kind of,


00:14:54:14 - 00:14:58:09
you know, this homeless person kind of
messing up our beautiful community here.


00:14:59:12 - 00:15:01:08
after
I went on the monest— it's funny, I,


00:15:01:08 - 00:15:05:08
I went back to Redondo
after my monk experience. And,


00:15:06:09 - 00:15:09:02
when I saw her, I engaged her.


00:15:09:02 - 00:15:11:01
I know for.


00:15:11:01 - 00:15:13:23
And then I learned her story,
which was a shocking to me.


00:15:13:23 - 00:15:16:23
She had been living in Redondo
just like I was.


00:15:17:16 - 00:15:20:10
her life fell apart for various reasons.


00:15:20:10 - 00:15:23:10
she got divorced, lost a job, whatever.


00:15:23:18 - 00:15:25:24
before you knew it,
she couldn't afford to stay there.


00:15:25:24 - 00:15:28:24
Almost. The area was still her home.


00:15:29:00 - 00:15:32:00
And so, you know, sometimes,


00:15:32:10 - 00:15:34:14
it's an amazing shift that


00:15:34:14 - 00:15:37:14
when we can move in the compassion.


00:15:37:21 - 00:15:39:03
Yeah.


00:15:39:03 - 00:15:43:07
You know, and loving kindness and
understanding others instead of seeing,


00:15:43:23 - 00:15:47:16
feeling like they're other than us,
that they're that we're all connected.


00:15:48:07 - 00:15:49:04
Oh, I love it.


00:15:49:04 - 00:15:52:01
And I love that
you studied with Burmese monks.


00:15:52:01 - 00:15:54:07
I actually went to Burma.


00:15:54:07 - 00:15:55:14
Oh, so. To.


00:15:55:14 - 00:15:59:00
Yeah, several different,
temples and monasteries.


00:15:59:08 - 00:16:04:04
And I recall very fondly
a long conversation I had


00:16:04:04 - 00:16:04:23
with this Buddhist monk.


00:16:04:23 - 00:16:09:18
He just sat down next to my mom
and my dad and me and just was like


00:16:09:22 - 00:16:14:16
the most open hearted, kind,
compassionate person.


00:16:14:16 - 00:16:19:03
Even as he was discussing
all of the difficult political,


00:16:19:22 - 00:16:23:07
strife that they were having
with the military and how the military


00:16:23:07 - 00:16:29:04
had actually slaughtered monks,
which was like unheard of to them.


00:16:29:04 - 00:16:33:18
He still had compassion in his heart
when he was speaking about that.


00:16:33:18 - 00:16:35:07
And I was so impressed.


00:16:35:07 - 00:16:36:23
So I think that there's something very,


00:16:37:23 - 00:16:38:20
you know, kind


00:16:38:20 - 00:16:41:20
and open hearted,
especially about Buddhist monks.


00:16:41:20 - 00:16:44:17
But monks, of course, in general.


00:16:44:17 - 00:16:47:04
tell us, though, how you went


00:16:47:04 - 00:16:50:05
from being a monk
and how did you transition


00:16:50:05 - 00:16:56:16
to becoming a psychotherapist
and then just the path that you are today?


00:16:57:01 - 00:17:00:11
Well, you know,
I had been in the, working as a writer


00:17:00:11 - 00:17:03:11
for many years, and I had,


00:17:03:21 - 00:17:05:22
gosh, I even was one of the co-founders,


00:17:05:22 - 00:17:08:22
one of the first internet comic strips.


00:17:10:11 - 00:17:13:11
that was on America Online
a long, long time ago.


00:17:13:24 - 00:17:17:04
and actually, it's when that company
kind of fell apart that I went


00:17:17:04 - 00:17:20:04
through this,


00:17:20:06 - 00:17:22:06
period of pain that


00:17:22:06 - 00:17:25:06
kind of pushed me into the monastery. So,


00:17:25:23 - 00:17:29:04
but when I got out of the monastery,


00:17:30:05 - 00:17:33:00
I started doing some workshops
on spiritual eating,


00:17:33:00 - 00:17:34:24
on the aspects of spiritual eating.


00:17:34:24 - 00:17:37:12
You know, it's funny
because I can remember two sitting,


00:17:37:12 - 00:17:40:02
at the monks table
and one time the monks said,


00:17:40:02 - 00:17:43:02
but we want you to sit
opposite of U Silananda .


00:17:43:08 - 00:17:46:09
And he had written a book called
The Four Foundations of Mindfulness,


00:17:46:09 - 00:17:50:17
a wonderful book, really,
which is the traditional, sort


00:17:50:17 - 00:17:56:07
Satipatthana, the, the four foundations
of Mindfulness as described by the Buddha.


00:17:57:14 - 00:18:00:14
And and so, I thought, oh, my God,


00:18:00:14 - 00:18:02:24
I'm might have to sit opposite him, I'm
going to do something stupid.


00:18:02:24 - 00:18:05:24
I would eat mindlessly, but,


00:18:07:05 - 00:18:10:09
eating with the monks,
you know, he was just being present.


00:18:11:01 - 00:18:14:07
And then I felt more relaxed
to just be present myself.


00:18:14:07 - 00:18:16:20
And I found that


00:18:16:20 - 00:18:20:10
even though we didn't speak at the table
and there were, there were little signs


00:18:20:10 - 00:18:24:12
up around the room that said Noble
Silence in the dining area.


00:18:25:17 - 00:18:29:15
was that, everybody was so attentive
to one another, and you might finish


00:18:29:15 - 00:18:32:23
eating, and another monk would hold out
a bowl of rice for you or whatever.


00:18:33:16 - 00:18:38:03
And the community was presenting the food,
which was very humbling to realize that.


00:18:38:13 - 00:18:41:15
And that was the you know,
we grow up in a culture where we think


00:18:41:15 - 00:18:46:03
everything we're so independent,
but in reality, you know, food


00:18:46:08 - 00:18:51:04
helps us see the complete web of life
and to which we are a part.


00:18:51:04 - 00:18:51:18
Right?


00:18:51:18 - 00:18:55:08
We can't really survive
without the efforts of others.


00:18:55:20 - 00:18:56:15
Yeah, right.


00:18:56:15 - 00:18:57:24
And so it was very humbling for me.


00:18:57:24 - 00:18:59:14
And it broke down some of that,


00:18:59:14 - 00:19:03:21
those Western ideas that we have
that we have to do it alone.


00:19:04:07 - 00:19:05:21
Exactly.


00:19:05:21 - 00:19:07:00
Yeah. Yeah.


00:19:07:00 - 00:19:09:17
It's all about community
with the with eastern culture.


00:19:09:17 - 00:19:10:12
Yeah.


00:19:10:12 - 00:19:14:04
And that was a beautiful sense
of community of, of the monks


00:19:14:04 - 00:19:18:14
and of the people who shared their time
and their food with us.


00:19:19:08 - 00:19:22:02
And, and one time, somebody
I noticed that U


00:19:22:02 - 00:19:25:11
Silananda 
and I would not, did not eat sugary foods.


00:19:26:12 - 00:19:27:16
You know, because there,


00:19:27:16 - 00:19:30:00
you know, people would bring their
he just I never saw him eat it.


00:19:30:00 - 00:19:32:10
But one time a young


00:19:32:10 - 00:19:36:08
well or daughter of somebody
who had offered food and a family this


00:19:36:12 - 00:19:39:09
she came up this young girl
might have been 8 or 9 years old


00:19:39:09 - 00:19:42:09
and offered a little pastry to U Silananda 
you know, and,


00:19:42:09 - 00:19:45:08
and I remember think, oh, she's
not going to take that, but he took it.


00:19:45:08 - 00:19:49:03
He took it, and you ate it,
which I asked him about later.


00:19:49:08 - 00:19:53:04
And he said that he felt it was a,
you know, she gave it to him as a gift,


00:19:53:04 - 00:19:54:24
that it would have been on ungrace—


00:19:54:24 - 00:19:57:24
Ungrateful of him not to accept that.


00:19:58:05 - 00:20:00:24
Yes. Yeah.
So it was a very beautiful time.


00:20:00:24 - 00:20:02:13
And so I got out of the monastery,


00:20:02:13 - 00:20:06:00
I started doing workshops on spiritual
eating, and,


00:20:06:12 - 00:20:09:12
sometimes at the end of a workshop,
people would come up to me and,


00:20:10:00 - 00:20:11:18
you know,
talk to me about their experiences.


00:20:11:18 - 00:20:15:13
But every now and then
I get somebody who came up and practically


00:20:15:13 - 00:20:19:22
in tears or, or distressed
who said, you know, oh, I have this.


00:20:19:22 - 00:20:22:05
And they, you know,
talk to me in a hushed tone.


00:20:22:05 - 00:20:24:09
Oh, I have this eating disorder.


00:20:24:09 - 00:20:28:06
I, you know,
I don't know how to get over this.


00:20:28:06 - 00:20:28:22
And it's, you know,


00:20:29:22 - 00:20:30:06
and I could


00:20:30:06 - 00:20:33:06
feel the torment and it
it was such a tragedy,


00:20:34:03 - 00:20:38:12
and I and I realized I didn't know
how to work with them at that level.


00:20:39:00 - 00:20:40:01
Right. Yeah.


00:20:40:01 - 00:20:44:10
So I decided to go back to school,
into graduate school,


00:20:45:03 - 00:20:48:03
to become a licensed
professional counselor.


00:20:48:08 - 00:20:48:15
Yeah.


00:20:48:15 - 00:20:51:21
And, so that was, you know,
so that I could.


00:20:51:24 - 00:20:55:00
And then I worked in an eating disorder
clinic for several years.


00:20:55:17 - 00:20:58:23
it was an intensive outpatient clinic
here in the Portland area.


00:20:59:04 - 00:21:01:05
So I got to work
directly with the patients,


00:21:01:05 - 00:21:04:10
and I was able to bring in mindfulness
and things like that,


00:21:04:10 - 00:21:06:00
and that they really liked.


00:21:06:00 - 00:21:09:24
We would do a minute, you know,
I would teach them how to just be calm


00:21:09:24 - 00:21:10:11
for a minute


00:21:10:11 - 00:21:14:01
to one minute, breathing at a time,
and then we would have meals with them


00:21:15:07 - 00:21:17:23
because we had to make sure they weren't
practicing their symptoms.


00:21:17:23 - 00:21:19:00
And that's what we would.


00:21:19:00 - 00:21:20:02
Therapists would have meals.


00:21:20:02 - 00:21:23:08
So when I would have the meals,
they would say, Donald,


00:21:23:08 - 00:21:27:19
could we do a minute of that
breathing meditation? Absolutely.


00:21:27:20 - 00:21:30:14
And they would all talk among themselves
and they would.


00:21:30:14 - 00:21:31:16
They said to me, they said, you know,


00:21:31:16 - 00:21:34:21
it helps us calm us down and helps
relieve our fears.


00:21:34:21 - 00:21:36:06
Before the meal.


00:21:36:06 - 00:21:38:08
Yes. Yeah. Yes.


00:21:38:08 - 00:21:39:03
I can agree.


00:21:39:03 - 00:21:43:10
I do this a lot with my clients
and they developed


00:21:43:10 - 00:21:46:20
such a high anxiety when it comes to food.


00:21:46:20 - 00:21:49:20
There's so much. Yeah, attached to food.


00:21:50:02 - 00:21:52:20
But when you help them
just be present in the moment,


00:21:52:20 - 00:21:56:17
they can just enjoy the sensory
aspects of the food


00:21:56:17 - 00:22:01:11
without going into their doing mind
they can be in their, yeah, being mind.


00:22:01:17 - 00:22:05:03
And that helps to regulate
their nervous system, which of course


00:22:05:03 - 00:22:10:20
helps them digest better and helps
to realign their conditioning around food.


00:22:10:20 - 00:22:14:11
I love that
you probably were one of the first people


00:22:14:18 - 00:22:16:19
to introduce this into eating, just.


00:22:16:19 - 00:22:19:08
I think so like I said, yeah, I think so.


00:22:20:16 - 00:22:21:01
I was


00:22:21:01 - 00:22:24:01
invited
to be on the, the Center for Mindful


00:22:24:01 - 00:22:27:12
Eating Board of Directors,
which I did for many years.


00:22:27:12 - 00:22:29:04
And then I became the vice president.


00:22:29:04 - 00:22:34:21
But Jean Kristeller, who has done
a lot of work in, developed MBEAT.


00:22:34:21 - 00:22:38:09
It's called Mindfulness
Based, Eating Awareness Training program.


00:22:38:22 - 00:22:41:22
And, she was the president


00:22:42:00 - 00:22:45:00
of that organization. And,


00:22:45:08 - 00:22:49:17
but so she's probably one of the early
pioneers as well to bring mindfulness in.


00:22:49:17 - 00:22:52:17
But I started to do that
with clients. And,


00:22:52:20 - 00:22:55:20
and I was really kind of surprised that,


00:22:56:17 - 00:22:59:19
I think I came in at the right time
when the therapy field


00:22:59:22 - 00:23:02:12
was opening up a little more and,


00:23:02:12 - 00:23:05:11
and mindfulness started to become
something that people started


00:23:05:11 - 00:23:09:09
to understand and appreciated
in the healing benefits of it.


00:23:09:18 - 00:23:12:02
Not just for eating of course.


00:23:12:02 - 00:23:13:20
Thanks to Jon Kabat-Zinn.


00:23:13:20 - 00:23:14:12
Yeah, right.


00:23:14:12 - 00:23:17:15
And actually Jean had worked with him.
Yeah.


00:23:18:03 - 00:23:18:17
He was.


00:23:18:17 - 00:23:23:10
I think he was like the pioneer
really to bring it from eastern practice


00:23:23:10 - 00:23:24:11
to western. practice.


00:23:24:11 - 00:23:27:00
Yeah, absolutely. He was, he was.


00:23:27:00 - 00:23:33:21
And yeah, his his work has really expanded
what he originally started it


00:23:33:21 - 00:23:38:07
with in the, I think it was in the 70s
for muscular pain.


00:23:38:07 - 00:23:40:20
And then it expanded
into a lot of different things.


00:23:40:20 - 00:23:43:14
And. Yes. Yeah, yeah.


00:23:43:14 - 00:23:49:02
So you brought that into the therapeutic
space and I am so grateful.


00:23:49:02 - 00:23:50:15
Jean Kristeller as well.


00:23:50:15 - 00:23:53:07
I did my dissertation on mindfulness,


00:23:54:16 - 00:23:57:21
practices
to help people with bariatric surgery. eating disorders


00:23:58:01 - 00:23:59:09
Oh, okay. Yeah.


00:23:59:09 - 00:24:01:16
And so I'd really found out a lot about,


00:24:01:16 - 00:24:04:16
the meat program
from all of that research.


00:24:04:20 - 00:24:10:02
And, you know, what they did prove
is that the more you practice mindfulness,


00:24:10:14 - 00:24:13:24
the quantity of mindfulness
is that the predictor


00:24:13:24 - 00:24:16:24
in the reduction of binge eating symptoms


00:24:17:06 - 00:24:22:11
and a greater overall satisfaction,
with eating and with yourself


00:24:22:11 - 00:24:26:22
and I, I that I've,
I've brought that into my own practice.


00:24:26:22 - 00:24:28:07
I do that with my clients.


00:24:28:07 - 00:24:31:16
That's a huge part of my book
which you know, you you. endorsed as well.


00:24:31:16 - 00:24:32:10
Yeah. That's.


00:24:32:10 - 00:24:35:01
Well and it's so valuable to the client.


00:24:35:01 - 00:24:35:10
Yeah.


00:24:35:10 - 00:24:38:17
Because it helps them to relax
when it comes.


00:24:38:17 - 00:24:39:05
You had,


00:24:39:05 - 00:24:42:09
also a lot of great science in your book
and a lot of talk about the


00:24:42:10 - 00:24:46:21
different hormones and give people
a look into the whole physiology


00:24:46:21 - 00:24:50:13
aspect of it, which I love, too,
in addition to the mindfulness.


00:24:50:22 - 00:24:53:18
But the, the mindfulness piece. Yeah.


00:24:55:12 - 00:24:56:09
I feel it


00:24:56:09 - 00:25:00:05
changes your relationship
to eating and food.


00:25:00:05 - 00:25:03:08
It changes your relationship
to depression or anxiety.


00:25:03:22 - 00:25:06:06
It's not that it
magically makes it disappear,


00:25:06:06 - 00:25:09:22
but you are viewing it so differently


00:25:10:15 - 00:25:15:00
and you're able to tolerate,
even those uncomfortable, thoughts


00:25:15:00 - 00:25:18:06
or feelings you might have had around
a particular problem.


00:25:19:00 - 00:25:20:18
So it.


00:25:20:18 - 00:25:24:06
Yes, I agree,
and I think the more you practice it


00:25:24:06 - 00:25:27:13
and the more you actually understand
what the present moment


00:25:27:13 - 00:25:32:01
actually feels like, because we're right
now, we're in the present moment.


00:25:32:01 - 00:25:37:10
And it's, to me is so exciting
and engaging, and it makes me


00:25:37:10 - 00:25:41:24
so happy to just be sitting here with you
and be focused on you.


00:25:41:24 - 00:25:43:01
And in the moment. Yeah.


00:25:43:01 - 00:25:48:11
But if you were to just take a second
and just assess your surroundings around


00:25:48:11 - 00:25:52:12
you using all of your senses,
most people tend to start


00:25:52:12 - 00:25:58:17
to just feel this wave of of peace and calm
washing over them.


00:25:59:00 - 00:26:02:04
And that is the present moment.


00:26:02:04 - 00:26:07:02
And when you can feel that, that's
what you can direct your life toward.


00:26:07:02 - 00:26:07:23
And I think that's


00:26:07:23 - 00:26:12:06
what really helps with depression
and anxiety is being present.


00:26:12:08 - 00:26:13:17
Yeah, absolutely.


00:26:13:17 - 00:26:18:06
I think we're so, you know,
we become so fast with everything.


00:26:18:09 - 00:26:19:19
Onto the next thing and the next thing.


00:26:19:19 - 00:26:22:23
We don't want to pause and take that time


00:26:22:23 - 00:26:26:11
to let things in
or to reflect in the moment.


00:26:26:19 - 00:26:30:06
And I think of it
as, the in-between moments.


00:26:30:06 - 00:26:31:08
Right. If you can.


00:26:31:08 - 00:26:35:05
There are so many little in-between
moments when you might be feeling


00:26:35:05 - 00:26:41:01
impatience or annoyance or whatever,
but if you could just be present with that


00:26:41:12 - 00:26:45:21
and look around and really see
what's there in front of you, it could.


00:26:47:00 - 00:26:48:02
It's life changing.


00:26:48:02 - 00:26:50:20
Actually. Yes.


00:26:50:20 - 00:26:55:00
In the time that we have left
for this section, can you tell people


00:26:55:11 - 00:26:59:18
what kinds of practical application
or techniques


00:26:59:18 - 00:27:03:13
can the listeners
easily integrate into their daily lives?


00:27:03:13 - 00:27:07:16
What is something that you suggest
that they can do that


00:27:07:16 - 00:27:12:22
helps them to start to become more present
or be in the present moment?


00:27:13:01 - 00:27:15:15
Notice your in breath.


00:27:15:15 - 00:27:18:15
What does it feel like
notice your outbreath?


00:27:18:20 - 00:27:20:14
You know there's the the the breath.


00:27:20:14 - 00:27:23:05
Mindfulness what’s called Anapanasati


00:27:23:05 - 00:27:25:15
which is, you know, which is breathing in.


00:27:25:15 - 00:27:28:22
I notice I'm breathing in, breathing out
I notice


00:27:28:22 - 00:27:31:22
I'm breathing out.


00:27:31:22 - 00:27:34:07
if it's a long breath, know,


00:27:34:07 - 00:27:37:21
if it's a long breath
or if it's a short breath, just know.


00:27:37:21 - 00:27:39:06
If that's a short breath.


00:27:39:06 - 00:27:42:13
So this is bringing you into the body,
right?


00:27:42:24 - 00:27:44:05
Is bringing your focus.


00:27:45:04 - 00:27:47:12
really the,


00:27:47:12 - 00:27:50:08
the most vital thing
we have is our breath.


00:27:50:08 - 00:27:54:10
So first thing we do, really,
when we come into this life


00:27:54:19 - 00:27:56:23
and just to notice that breath.


00:27:56:23 - 00:28:01:12
So it's embodying
you and it's also concentrating your mind


00:28:01:12 - 00:28:04:21
by focusing on it, by watching it,
you're actually building up,


00:28:05:08 - 00:28:08:07
what I like to say, you know, skill power.


00:28:08:07 - 00:28:08:13
It can.


00:28:08:13 - 00:28:13:19
And focus concentration is one of them,
especially in the distractible world


00:28:13:19 - 00:28:16:19
that we're living in nowadays, when we're, you know,


00:28:17:00 - 00:28:20:00
our phones are pinging us all the time
and pop up windows


00:28:20:00 - 00:28:24:05
are coming up on our computers
and everything's, distracting us.


00:28:24:09 - 00:28:27:05
So other
others are trying to grab your attention.


00:28:27:05 - 00:28:33:08
But our precious attention is one of the
most valuable things we have, right? Yes.


00:28:33:09 - 00:28:37:04
And there are hundreds of algorithms
that are layered together


00:28:37:04 - 00:28:40:04
and so many different programs
to try to grab our attention


00:28:40:17 - 00:28:43:17
and that actually make us more passive.


00:28:43:24 - 00:28:47:14
And the thing about mindfulness
is it can help us become more creative


00:28:47:14 - 00:28:49:11
and self-directed.


00:28:49:11 - 00:28:52:24
Yes. And and I think that's
one of the valuable things.


00:28:53:00 - 00:28:56:00
But in answer to your question,
I think just taking a breath,


00:28:56:15 - 00:28:58:00
noticing your posture,


00:28:59:04 - 00:29:00:16
just noticing your body.


00:29:00:16 - 00:29:02:11
How are your feet
touching the floor right now?


00:29:02:11 - 00:29:05:05
If you're sitting in a chair,
what's the position


00:29:05:05 - 00:29:08:24
where you where you're touching a chair
or the position of your your legs,


00:29:08:24 - 00:29:12:11
your knees, your,
you know, elbows, your your head.


00:29:12:23 - 00:29:17:12
But just becoming aware of all of that
can be very helpful.


00:29:18:03 - 00:29:21:04
Oh, I agree,
I say this to my clients all the time.


00:29:21:04 - 00:29:25:24
I say, you know, the mind can be a jerk,
but the body really loves you know.


00:29:26:09 - 00:29:30:17
And what I mean by that is that
we're so stuck in our heads all the time.


00:29:30:17 - 00:29:32:03
We're always thinking.


00:29:32:03 - 00:29:35:21
We're ruminating about the past
or worrying about the future.


00:29:36:02 - 00:29:39:19
But when you actually get into your body,
that tells you


00:29:39:19 - 00:29:42:19
everything about yourself.


00:29:43:00 - 00:29:46:24
And when you connect the body to the mind,
that's


00:29:46:24 - 00:29:50:09
when I think you see the real power
and the real magic happen,


00:29:50:09 - 00:29:53:20
especially when it comes to mindful
eating.


00:29:54:02 - 00:29:56:21
A lot of people, they'll eat really fast,
they'll eat distracted,


00:29:56:21 - 00:29:58:06
they'll eat mindlessly.


00:29:58:06 - 00:30:00:03
They have the TV on, they'll be doomscrolling.


00:30:00:03 - 00:30:02:05
They're not in their body.


00:30:02:05 - 00:30:06:01
And when they are in their body,
your body tells you everything.


00:30:06:09 - 00:30:08:04
It tells you when you're hungry.


00:30:08:04 - 00:30:09:12
It tells you when you're not hungry


00:30:09:12 - 00:30:11:12
It tells you when you're tired.


00:30:11:12 - 00:30:16:04
And we need to start to listen to that
more than we're listening to


00:30:16:04 - 00:30:16:19
whatever it is.


00:30:16:19 - 00:30:18:14
The chatter up here like,


00:30:18:14 - 00:30:22:10
oh, I'm going to get fat from this,
or this is going to cause X, Y, and Z.


00:30:22:10 - 00:30:26:13
It's like, no, your body will tell you
what it wants to eat.


00:30:27:01 - 00:30:30:05
It will tell you,
you know how much it wants to eat.


00:30:30:07 - 00:30:31:17
How much. Yeah.


00:30:31:17 - 00:30:33:02
It'll tell you okay.


00:30:33:02 - 00:30:35:06
Especially when you go slow.


00:30:35:06 - 00:30:37:18
Okay. I think I'm almost done.


00:30:37:18 - 00:30:40:04
It'll tell you
that's too many potato chips.


00:30:40:04 - 00:30:43:01
My mouth doesn't feel good. Right.


00:30:43:01 - 00:30:45:20
And so that's why
you don't have to restrict yourself.


00:30:45:20 - 00:30:47:17
You don't need to diet.


00:30:47:17 - 00:30:50:19
Which of course is
you know, it always leads to failure


00:30:51:03 - 00:30:55:01
and it goes against the body's
natural systems.


00:30:55:01 - 00:30:58:04
So when you become in harmony
with your body,


00:30:58:13 - 00:31:00:11
that's
when you just naturally lose weight.


00:31:00:11 - 00:31:02:05
You don't even have to think about it.


00:31:02:05 - 00:31:03:21
And you're in harmony with your body.


00:31:03:21 - 00:31:05:13
You're working with your body.


00:31:05:13 - 00:31:10:10
I love that you have brought this
especially to


00:31:11:02 - 00:31:14:02
the disordered
eating and eating disordered world.


00:31:14:07 - 00:31:16:03
We're going to get into more of that


00:31:16:03 - 00:31:19:20
and talk about your new book,
which is amazing and awesome, of course.


00:31:20:10 - 00:31:24:17
but we are out of time for this
half of the episode.


00:31:24:21 - 00:31:26:06
I can't, I can't believe it.


00:31:26:06 - 00:31:28:16
Yeah, I can't believe it went by so fast.


00:31:28:16 - 00:31:32:09
I know now, but we will be coming back
next week.


00:31:32:09 - 00:31:36:11
Everybody, for the second half
of this amazing interview


00:31:36:11 - 00:31:39:23
with mindfulness guru Donald Altman.


00:31:39:23 - 00:31:43:19
You guys,
we are so lucky to have him here with us.


00:31:43:22 - 00:31:46:18
So be sure to tune in next week.


00:31:46:18 - 00:31:49:08
Thank you so much, Donald. Thank you.


00:31:50:12 - 00:31:54:10
Thanks for tuning into the ANEW Body Insight podcast.


00:31:54:17 - 00:31:58:04
Please remember, the content shared on this podcast is for entertainment


00:31:58:04 - 00:32:01:06
purposes only and does not constitute medical advice.


00:32:01:16 - 00:32:02:18
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00:32:02:18 - 00:32:06:20
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00:32:07:00 - 00:32:09:00
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00:32:09:00 - 00:32:11:16
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00:32:11:16 - 00:32:15:06
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00:32:17:02 - 00:32:21:08
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