Mindful Monday Ep. 45 - Embrace Psychological Safety with Expert David Moerlein - ANEW Body Insight

Join us on this Mindful Monday for the 45th episode of ANEW Body Insight Podcast, featuring psychological safety expert David Moerlein. In this insightful episode, David delves deep into the concept of psychological safety within teams, a critical factor that determines their effectiveness far beyond traditional metrics like tenure or educational background.

Discover how psychological safety allows team members to freely express ideas, take risks without fear, and view failures as growth opportunities. David's rich experience and profound insights highlight why creating an environment where employees feel secure and valued leads to innovation and productivity.

Listeners will gain invaluable knowledge on:

• Implementing psychological safety practices in their own workplaces.
• Understanding the direct correlation between psychological safety and increased team performance.
• Strategies to encourage open dialogue and risk-taking in a supportive setting.
• The impact of psychological safety on personal and professional growth.

For more information about David Moerlein here are his social media:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemoerlein,  https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0CT3VJHYW,  https://www.thesafetyeffect.com/,  https://www.audible.com/author/David-Moerlein/B0CT3VJHYW.  

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and foster a more inclusive and effective team environment. Tap into the power of psychological safety to transform your workplace culture and drive success. Check out the link in our bio to watch and listen to the full discussion!

Thank you for joining us on this journey to wellness. Remember, the insights and advice shared on the ANEW Body Insight Podcast are for educational and informational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine. To learn more about the podcast and stay updated on new episodes, visit ANEW Body Insight Podcast at anew-insight.com. To watch this episode on YouTube, visit @my.anew.insight. Follow us on social media at @my.anew.insight on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads for more updates and insights. Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected with us for more empowering stories and expert guidance. Until next time, stay well and keep evolving with ANEW Body Insight!

Transcript

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Welcome to the ANEW Body Insight podcast,


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empowering and inspiring your journey to optimal health.


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Hosted by Dr. Supatra Tovar, clinical psychologist,


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registered dietitian, fitness expert and author of Deprogram Diet Culture:


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Rethink Your Relationship with Food, Heal Your Mind and Live a Diet-Free Life,


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and Chantal Donnelly, physical therapist and author of Settled:


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How to Find Calm in a Stress Inducing World.


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We follow our guests’ journey to optimal health,


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providing you with the keys to unlock your own wellness path.


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Tune in and evolve with us.


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Hello and welcome to the ANEW Body
Insight podcast.


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I am Chantal Donnelly
and I am here with my esteemed co-host


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Dr. Supatra Tovar.


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Say hi Supatra.


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Hi, Supatra.


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Just kidding. Hi, everybody.


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Today we are super excited


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because we have David Moerlein on the show
with us.


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Hey David, good to see you.


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Thanks so much for having me.


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Excited to be here.


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Yeah, we're excited to have you.


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We're going


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to tell you a little bit about David,


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and the rest of you
are all going to be excited too.


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So during his 15 years at Google,


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David Moerlein managed hundreds of people
across ten global offices


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and was awarded numerous awards
for coaching and management.


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David combines his academic background
in science and business


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and focuses his work at the intersection
of psychology, behavioral economics,


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business acumen,
statistics, and operations


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to support
highly productive teams and happy workers.


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His book, The Safety Effect.


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I've got my copy right here.


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Yeah. Yeah.


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So David's book, The Safety Effect,
shares tools that you can implement,


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he has implemented over the years
to help others create


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psychological safety
for themselves and others.


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And we will get into
what psychological safety is in a bit.


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You know, I think it's become very clear
to most of us, anyways,


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that work stress equals life stress.


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And we all know
that stress in general plays a huge role


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in exacerbating disease
and just creating unhappiness in general.


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And for that reason, we are truly,
truly excited to have David on the show.


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I think David Moerlein has a unique
take on how we can ameliorate


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workplace stress,
which is really affecting a lot of people.


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And we wanted to share his knowledge
with all of you.


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So again, thank you for being here. David.


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I guess we should probably also mention to
that David and I are kind of sort of related.


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(laughter)


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My husband's brother


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is married to David's sister,
so there you have it folks.


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We are sort of related.


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I feel like you might have to draw
a little diagram for that one.


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Like it is.


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It pops up on the screen to like,
show the connection. Yes.


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I think that might. Exactly.


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(laughter)


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We’ll have to put 
Kevin Bacon in there somewhere too.


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Perfect.


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That's a good idea.


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So, David,
before we get into, psychological safety,


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and maybe you can also calm us down
because we just had a 4.7 earthquake


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right before we started this,
so we're feeling a little physically


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unsafe and also psychologically unsafe.


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but before we get into that,


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we would love to hear
how you ended up on this journey.


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You have a lot of different degrees.


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You have, an undergraduate degree
in ecology, a master's in biology.


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And I am with you on that.


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I have a, a.


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Is it a BA? Yeah, my BA in biology.


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you also have an MBA.


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So there is an eclectic mix of academic
accomplishments here.


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Please tell us how this all kind of
got woven together


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so that you are able to write this book
on psychological safety.


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Yeah, I and, I'll call out this is a
question I've received many times.


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especially in a job interviews.


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So most employers would look at that,
especially early in my career,


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and they'd be like,
this guy's a little flaky.


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He doesn't know what he wants to do. And,


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and it probably worked against me
in many ways.


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And, luckily at this point,
probably less so. But


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it's something that I've always tended
to follow my passions.


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And then I mix in a bit of practicality
along the way, and I try to, like,


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do something that's practical
in the mix of the passions.


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And so in my first two degrees,
I truly just, like, follow my heart.


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So I've always been interested
in, how nature works.


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And then the intersection
of how nature can impact humans.


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So from my research and my masters,


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I looked at, my study was on the ability


00:05:06:12 - 00:05:09:12
of indoor plants to remove
particulate matter from indoor air.


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So you guys are in LA,
lots of particulate matter.


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Anytime you can remove that from the air,
that can reduce


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the incidence of things like asthma
and other breathing challenges.


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And so mine was the only study after NASA
at the time to look into that.


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Unfortunately, what I did, was to
realistically have an environment for,


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and so I ended it was inconclusive,
but that was my path,


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as I wanted to find some way
to connect nature to human health


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and then to provide benefit in a way
that's mutually beneficial for


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the environment and us.


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After I


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finished that second degree, though,
I applied to probably 20 jobs


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and I was either ghosted
or rejected by all of them.


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so I got a temporary job and realized


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it was time to maybe focus a little bit
more on the practical side


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of my passions,
which I really I've always enjoyed


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business as well
and decided to get my MBA and,


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then luckily I discovered Google.


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So, Google,


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appreciated the MBA, but they were also
one of the unique employers that also,


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recognized some of the value I could bring
to the diverse perspective of biology.


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and I don't want to take us down
a different path, but when,


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I do want to share a little bit beyond
just the education, because most people,


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when they see my, experience,
it might look goofy and disconnected.


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And when somebody sees somebody like


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me, in my career at
Google and then as an author,


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they might think


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that I had a linear path to where I was,
where I, where I am now.


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And that's very much not the case.


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So I went to five colleges.


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I dropped out of my first college
and never intended to go back.


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luckily I did let me down this path, but,


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I founded a clothing company
during my first masters with the goal


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of giving back, and I donated a good
percentage of the profits to charities.


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I started, a real estate investment firm


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while I was at Google, investment company,
and then,


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where we had residential properties.


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I started another clothing company
while I was at Google,


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and then I went down this path of writing
this book.


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I also wrote another book,


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an undergrad, about a bike trip that I
took from Cincinnati to Jackson, Wyoming.


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Just by myself, 1800 miles.


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I throw all that out there because
I didn't know where I would end up.


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I just, I followed
where I needed to be in that moment.


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And then that led me to a path
of where I am today.


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Wow. That's amazing.


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I think that, you know,
we also want to know


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the inspiration
to write about psychology safety.


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Give us a picture of that.


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Yeah. So,


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about writing about psychological safety
specifically.


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So writing the Safety Effect?


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Mm-hmm. 


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Yeah.


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So I I was fortunate at my,


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during my time at Google, Google
ran a study,


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it was called Project Aristotle
and it was a little over a decade ago,


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and they researched 180 global teams
across engineering and sales.


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And the hope was to find
what drives the most effective teams.


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And so some of the stuff
that might pop up for us, or the


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if we were just brainstorming,
we might think that tenure or seniority


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or a fancy school or working in
the same office would all drive


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a better team environment
and a more effective team.


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But in that study,
they found that none of those


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who had any statistical significance
to team effectiveness,


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the number one
driver was psychological safety.


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And so what I realized around that time


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was that what I was creating within
my teams at Google,


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because I managed teams for 12 years.
What I was creating with in


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my teams was actually called
psychological safety. And,


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I had consistently been receiving
positive feedback


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from those who were working with me
that I was creating spaces


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where they could speak up, share ideas,
they could challenge me directly,


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they could take chances
and take risks and fail.


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And all of that was okay.


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And so the combination of those two things


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where I'm coming from a company who,


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who did some of the most
influential research in the space,


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and that I had been fortunate enough


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to create psychological safety for 12
plus years at Google.


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I felt like I had something
to bring to the world.


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And so I'm sharing some of the tools
that others can implement for their teams.


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within the book.


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So fascinating.


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I've heard about that study


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that they did it at Google,
but it's kind of cool to hear it


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from your perspective,
having been there for 15 years.


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Can you tell us a little bit more
about what your responsibilities


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were at Google, and what kind of went down
when you, when were there?


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Yeah, so I was originally brought into,


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into a role as an individual contributor
role where I spent a couple of years,


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doing data analysis and creating,
essentially pitch presentations.


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And the storylines that we would
then bring to fortune 500


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customers,
and around the advertising space.


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And then I was recruited into a manager
role, a couple of years in.


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And I led sales teams for a little over
eight years.


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and that was


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working with a small as mom and pop shops
just trying to figure out what to do.


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Like how can they


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bring in a few more customers
up through fortune 100 companies,


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you know, with substantial budgets
and much different challenges


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than those mom and pop shops
all working within with Google Ads.


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And then I spent I transitioned,
I took that experience into our enablement


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team and led global enablement
teams for four years.


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So I was originally hired
to develop a sales skills training,


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for our SMB organization.


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So the small and medium sized companies
that we were partnering with.


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So we created the first sales
skills training for that group


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and then expanded that,
some of those trainings


00:11:03:06 - 00:11:06:16
across our analysts
and our operations teams as well.


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And, so when I left Google,


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I was still working within that team.


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Wow. 


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That is wonderful.


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So, you know, we
we did touch upon your book,


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the Safety Effect
and the reason why you wrote it.


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Give this a picture
of what's actually in the book.


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What kinds of concepts
do you bring forward?


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Yeah.


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So I'll, lead with,


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now a just a brief preface because,


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when I was first starting to talk
with others around what I plan to share,


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I have a, a good friend in Cincinnati


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who's a director at the YMCA,
and she does some similar type of work.


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And I sat down to coffee


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with her,
and I shared what I was planning to write.


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And she is like, bull***t,
you can't write a framework


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that will create psychological safety,
that it's not possible.


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And actually,
I took that to heart and when I in the


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in the framing
of everything that I put on the pages, I


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because
I don't intend any of it to dictate.


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I intended to be


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to provide options


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that people can then try
what feels genuine for them to implement


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for themselves, within their team
and across the organization.


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So I deliberately structured it in
that way,


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and was conscious to not say,
this is going to work for everybody, but


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just do what feels genuine to do, to you.


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I started with ourselves because that's
where we have the most control.


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And then I took it to our team


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where we can have influence,
but we can't control what those


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who we can likely influence
what is happening within our team.


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And then I started to talk about
how can you bring it to your organization.


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And for most of us,
especially at a larger company,


00:13:03:22 - 00:13:05:22
we likely can't change the organization.


00:13:05:22 - 00:13:07:10
We can't change the culture.


00:13:07:10 - 00:13:09:10
We can't change what leadership is doing.


00:13:09:10 - 00:13:12:19
Even if we are within that leadership role
for the CEO and the CMO,


00:13:12:19 - 00:13:15:19
like we can't change everything quickly.


00:13:16:09 - 00:13:20:08
but we can start to make slight inroads
into understanding


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what's happening
within our within our culture that,


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can then allow us on our team level
and for us as individuals


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to start to bring psychological safety
to life or to make changes


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that can hopefully ultimately change
the overall culture of the organization.


00:13:34:24 - 00:13:38:05
But the framing is starting with us,
where we have the most control


00:13:38:05 - 00:13:41:05
and then going to the place of,
the organization.


00:13:41:16 - 00:13:44:18
And then I invite practice
so that we can create habits around it.


00:13:45:07 - 00:13:47:10
So, there are,


00:13:49:06 - 00:13:50:11
7 to 12


00:13:50:11 - 00:13:53:11
tools that you could bring out
for your teams and for yourself.


00:13:53:18 - 00:13:56:10
And if you would begin to practice those,


00:13:56:10 - 00:13:59:05
and deliberately practice,
I would continue to iterate.


00:13:59:05 - 00:14:01:20
I expect, just like I experienced,
that you'd be able


00:14:01:20 - 00:14:04:22
to create psychological safety
for yourself and your team.


00:14:05:23 - 00:14:07:07
Yeah, it's a lot like stress.


00:14:07:07 - 00:14:10:09
When I started writing about stress,
it was like, it's individual


00:14:10:09 - 00:14:11:09
for everybody, right?


00:14:11:09 - 00:14:14:14
Which is what you're saying here
with psychological safety


00:14:15:01 - 00:14:17:19
and you can't control other people.


00:14:17:19 - 00:14:19:24
So you have to start with yourself.


00:14:19:24 - 00:14:24:01
And then you find ways
in which you can change your environment.


00:14:24:02 - 00:14:26:24
Maybe not the people in the environment,
but you can change the environment.


00:14:26:24 - 00:14:29:09
So it's funny,


00:14:29:09 - 00:14:32:08
not surprising
that there is a parallel there.


00:14:33:22 - 00:14:34:24
You it's interesting.


00:14:34:24 - 00:14:39:12
In the book, you talk a lot about
the benefits of psychological safety.


00:14:39:22 - 00:14:43:15
And you you mentioned before
what psychological safety is.


00:14:43:15 - 00:14:45:10
But maybe if you could give us,


00:14:45:10 - 00:14:49:02
the more standard, definition for our
listeners so that they really understand.


00:14:49:04 - 00:14:52:12
And you had mentioned, you know, helping
people feel like they could talk to you.


00:14:52:18 - 00:14:55:18
And even though there's a hierarchy, not,


00:14:56:05 - 00:15:00:00
making people feel like
they have to kowtow


00:15:00:00 - 00:15:03:06
to what you're saying
if you are in the, the higher position.


00:15:04:06 - 00:15:06:16
But maybe there's another definition
that you could give so people


00:15:06:16 - 00:15:08:08
really get a solid understanding.


00:15:08:08 - 00:15:12:10
And also,
can you talk to us about why it is you


00:15:12:10 - 00:15:17:02
mentioned in your book that psychological
safety leads to team success?


00:15:17:19 - 00:15:20:18
Because I think that's really where,


00:15:20:18 - 00:15:23:10
you know, companies
start to their ears perk up


00:15:23:10 - 00:15:26:10
and they want to know
more about psychological safety,


00:15:26:16 - 00:15:29:22
which ultimately helps employees
as well as their companies.


00:15:31:19 - 00:15:34:00
Just so you know, I'm jotting down,
because I think there were a couple,


00:15:34:00 - 00:15:35:05
maybe a couple questions in there.


00:15:35:05 - 00:15:37:04
I just want to make sure
I get to each of them.


00:15:37:04 - 00:15:41:11
Sorry. We, Supatra and I have a tendency
to throw a lot of questions all at once at people.


00:15:41:11 - 00:15:42:06
(laughter)


00:15:42:06 - 00:15:43:16
Sorry. All good.


00:15:43:16 - 00:15:45:10
No, all good.
No need to apologize.


00:15:47:08 - 00:15:49:24
So I heard what is psychological safety


00:15:49:24 - 00:15:53:01
and how do we define that
and how does it relate to hierarchy.


00:15:53:04 - 00:15:55:13
Did I hear that one in there as well?


00:15:55:13 - 00:15:58:06
Well, I think you had mentioned
hierarchy before.


00:15:58:06 - 00:16:01:16
So just in the definition,
how does it relate to hierarchy.


00:16:01:16 - 00:16:03:12
Yeah. Yeah.


00:16:03:12 - 00:16:06:12
And I feel like there was one other one.


00:16:06:19 - 00:16:08:05
Why is it that


00:16:08:05 - 00:16:11:05
psychological
safety improves team success?


00:16:11:11 - 00:16:12:16
Aahh, Okay. Great.


00:16:14:01 - 00:16:15:04
Thank you for taking the time.


00:16:15:04 - 00:16:17:08
There will be a quiz at the end.


00:16:17:08 - 00:16:19:02
Perfect. And actually, I'll call out.


00:16:19:02 - 00:16:21:08
So if I didn't feel safe with you,


00:16:21:08 - 00:16:25:09
I probably wouldn't have taken the time
to follow up with those questions.


00:16:25:20 - 00:16:28:20
I would have just tried to jump in
and remember,


00:16:29:16 - 00:16:31:12
and do the best I could,


00:16:31:12 - 00:16:34:11
because I wouldn't have felt comfortable
pausing to ask the question.


00:16:34:11 - 00:16:37:11
So I just, I'll call it out.


00:16:37:15 - 00:16:40:16
So psychological safety
is that feeling that we have


00:16:41:03 - 00:16:45:21
when we feel comfortable
speaking up and sharing our ideas


00:16:47:01 - 00:16:49:03
and trying new things without fear


00:16:49:03 - 00:16:51:04
of judgment or repercussion.


00:16:52:05 - 00:16:55:05
And it can show up
in a variety of different ways,


00:16:55:05 - 00:16:59:11
but I tend to think of two different
categories that where I think it can,


00:17:00:15 - 00:17:02:17
it highlights pretty well for me.


00:17:02:17 - 00:17:05:03
One is when I'm experiencing a challenge.


00:17:05:03 - 00:17:09:16
So let's say I am a salesperson
and I have a CEO meeting coming up,


00:17:10:12 - 00:17:13:12
and I'm really nervous about it.


00:17:13:21 - 00:17:16:02
In a psychologically safe environment.


00:17:16:02 - 00:17:19:14
I could go and talk to my manager,
or I can talk to my teammates


00:17:19:14 - 00:17:20:23
or talk to both.


00:17:20:23 - 00:17:22:18
Say I'm feeling really anxious here


00:17:22:18 - 00:17:25:12
and they can take the time
to ask some questions undercover.


00:17:25:12 - 00:17:28:01
What is it
that's making me feel uncomfortable?


00:17:28:01 - 00:17:30:20
And then create the space
for me to practice in a way


00:17:30:20 - 00:17:33:21
that would allow me to improve
and show up better for that CEO.


00:17:34:21 - 00:17:39:07
And the results are great
because I feel supported.


00:17:39:19 - 00:17:42:06
I'm more likely to show up
better in the meeting.


00:17:42:06 - 00:17:44:05
I'm more likely to actually
want to stay in my role,


00:17:44:05 - 00:17:47:11
because I'm enjoying that
growth that I'm experiencing.


00:17:48:11 - 00:17:49:13
The CEO is probably gonna


00:17:49:13 - 00:17:51:15
have a better experience
because I'm going to show up better,


00:17:51:15 - 00:17:54:15
and hopefully they will
then be more inclined to,


00:17:54:24 - 00:17:57:19
join in with what
we're offering from our company


00:17:57:19 - 00:18:00:03
and our team, then benefits
because assuming


00:18:00:03 - 00:18:03:09
that all plays out,
you're more likely to hit your targets.


00:18:03:22 - 00:18:06:07
And so that kind of goes to your last piece,


00:18:06:07 - 00:18:08:07
of like how does that improve team
success.


00:18:08:07 - 00:18:11:14
Like a big,
when we are able to speak up and share


00:18:11:14 - 00:18:14:14
our concerns and discuss challenges
openly,


00:18:14:14 - 00:18:17:21
we are more likely to find outcomes
proactively


00:18:17:21 - 00:18:20:19
that are better than
we would have found otherwise.


00:18:20:19 - 00:18:22:19
And then there's a flip side to it.


00:18:22:19 - 00:18:28:10
So if I kick butt at something and I know
I do really, really well, and then


00:18:29:10 - 00:18:32:10
I can unapologetically share that
with those around me.


00:18:32:15 - 00:18:33:19
And it's not about bragging.


00:18:33:19 - 00:18:36:12
It's not about saying, hey, like,
look at how great I am.


00:18:36:12 - 00:18:40:20
It's about how can we lift those around us
to also be great.


00:18:41:07 - 00:18:44:10
And so yes,
it feels good to share our successes


00:18:44:10 - 00:18:45:24
and the things that we're doing well.


00:18:45:24 - 00:18:48:22
But the intent behind this,
when there’s psychological safety


00:18:48:22 - 00:18:50:07
is to have that positive feeling,


00:18:50:07 - 00:18:53:06
but then to share it with others
so they can also feel it.


00:18:53:06 - 00:18:57:19
And in both of those cases,
what happens is the team performs better.


00:18:58:11 - 00:19:02:14
And, and you're more likely to achieve
the goals that you set out for yourself.


00:19:02:14 - 00:19:05:14
And ultimately,
the organization is more likely to thrive.


00:19:07:01 - 00:19:09:15
That all makes perfect sense.


00:19:09:15 - 00:19:10:23
And actually. Totally.


00:19:11:11 - 00:19:13:17
I will call out
the hierarchy piece as well because,


00:19:15:00 - 00:19:18:00
when we think about leadership,


00:19:18:10 - 00:19:21:10
at least in my experience,
it can sometimes be scary to,


00:19:21:12 - 00:19:24:12
to challenge or to,


00:19:24:22 - 00:19:27:22
to pursue something with a leader
who maybe is not receptive to it.


00:19:28:21 - 00:19:31:21
but when we start to
and this is not universally true,


00:19:32:03 - 00:19:35:03
but it is more true
in my experience than not.


00:19:35:13 - 00:19:39:13
When we start to tie the conversation
back into what they care about most,


00:19:40:13 - 00:19:42:19
they're more likely to be receptive.


00:19:42:19 - 00:19:44:24
So I will get back to the sales side.


00:19:44:24 - 00:19:49:13
If my sales leader cares about revenue
growth or customer acquisition,


00:19:50:11 - 00:19:53:11
then if I have this conversation
around psychological safety of


00:19:53:11 - 00:19:55:15
if we are able to create this environment


00:19:55:15 - 00:19:58:15
and genuinely be able
to speak up and share ideas,


00:19:59:00 - 00:20:00:23
and as a result,
we're going to get more money


00:20:00:23 - 00:20:02:17
and we're going to acquire more customers.


00:20:02:17 - 00:20:04:24
They're more likely to be receptive to it.


00:20:04:24 - 00:20:06:16
The same is true across industries.


00:20:06:16 - 00:20:11:04
So I don't know if you're a physician
and you, or a physical therapist,


00:20:11:04 - 00:20:11:24
I should say.


00:20:11:24 - 00:20:14:04
(inaudible)


00:20:14:22 - 00:20:18:00
the the intent is to have,


00:20:19:03 - 00:20:19:12
be able to


00:20:19:12 - 00:20:22:12
support more people with better outcomes.


00:20:23:09 - 00:20:27:00
Then you might be more inclined
if you feel psychologically safe,


00:20:27:00 - 00:20:29:20
to speak up and share where you feel like
you are being challenged


00:20:29:20 - 00:20:32:10
or you're not able to support your
your patients


00:20:32:10 - 00:20:35:00
and other physical therapists
then can come help you.


00:20:35:00 - 00:20:37:21
Or if you're really good at something,
you can go and share it with them.


00:20:37:21 - 00:20:43:03
It shows up in every, every industry,
and it shows up across the hierarchy,


00:20:43:03 - 00:20:47:00
up and down and across the breadth
of the company, across the team as well.


00:20:47:00 - 00:20:48:07
It plays the same way.


00:20:49:01 - 00:20:53:17
Wow. You know, I,
I can name several psychologically


00:20:53:17 - 00:20:59:20
unsafe places that I have worked at
and can really see how the leaders


00:20:59:20 - 00:21:03:16
would have benefited for the
for this kind of training, you know?


00:21:03:16 - 00:21:06:16
And what I'm wondering is


00:21:07:00 - 00:21:11:17
I'm imagining trying to bring this
training into some of these organizations


00:21:11:17 - 00:21:15:21
and getting a lot of,
you know, roadblocks and,


00:21:16:06 - 00:21:20:20
you know, these difficult personalities.
You know, just tell me,


00:21:21:01 - 00:21:26:24
how can you promote
the implementation of something like this


00:21:27:13 - 00:21:31:07
within a corporation that may suffer
from that kind of leadership?


00:21:31:07 - 00:21:35:04
The, you know, the creation
of that unsafe environment.


00:21:35:04 - 00:21:39:19
How do you bring psychological safety
as a topic and as a goal


00:21:39:19 - 00:21:43:13
for the organization and with someone who
might be real blocking that?


00:21:45:00 - 00:21:45:17
Yeah.


00:21:49:03 - 00:21:51:19
There are two things that
that popped in my head related to this.


00:21:51:19 - 00:21:54:19
One is thinking of the leadership
as human.


00:21:55:03 - 00:21:57:06
And the second is making it bite size.


00:21:57:06 - 00:21:58:21
It's more tactical and practical.


00:21:58:21 - 00:22:01:21
But, I'll start with the first piece,
because I,


00:22:02:05 - 00:22:03:09
I think it's


00:22:04:12 - 00:22:07:00
it's really easy,
just like it's easy for a leader


00:22:07:00 - 00:22:11:03
without much context to provide judgment
to an individual on a team and


00:22:11:11 - 00:22:14:14
to see a mistake from somebody
and maybe judge that in a way that,


00:22:16:18 - 00:22:18:16
they, they apply to the person


00:22:18:16 - 00:22:21:16
as a whole instead of it
being around the situation.


00:22:23:17 - 00:22:25:09
it's easy for individuals, for


00:22:25:09 - 00:22:28:08
and I'll speak for myself,
but I've seen it within Google many times


00:22:28:08 - 00:22:31:08
to make also make assumptions
around leadership.


00:22:32:08 - 00:22:35:23
so, just call it I'll call it
leadership are also very human.


00:22:36:05 - 00:22:38:08
And they also want psychological safety.


00:22:38:08 - 00:22:42:00
So inherently this goes back
to the beginning of time.


00:22:42:00 - 00:22:43:22
As humans we want to feel safe.


00:22:43:22 - 00:22:46:09
We've always wanted physical safety


00:22:46:09 - 00:22:49:06
and we've always needed
psychological safety as well.


00:22:49:06 - 00:22:54:19
And so just as much as the three of us
need safety, that leader also needs safety.


00:22:54:19 - 00:22:59:23
And so there is something
underlying how their behaving and,


00:23:01:06 - 00:23:04:05
oftentimes
it can be around some type of fear.


00:23:04:05 - 00:23:08:14
And so when I think about a leader
who is showing up in a way that doesn't


00:23:08:14 - 00:23:11:12
appear to be psychologically safe,
and they're not embracing


00:23:11:12 - 00:23:14:12
a conversation around
how they can improve,


00:23:14:20 - 00:23:17:20
that, that that conversation requires
some vulnerability.


00:23:18:10 - 00:23:22:09
it's probably pretty scary
to invite that type of feedback.


00:23:22:09 - 00:23:25:09
And so I think it's starting
with treating them as human


00:23:25:14 - 00:23:28:13
and recognizing that there's probably
something underlying what they're feeling


00:23:28:13 - 00:23:31:13
as well, and exploring that
and getting to the base of it.


00:23:31:15 - 00:23:33:06
It might be difficult to get there,
but maybe


00:23:33:06 - 00:23:35:14
and maybe you're not the person to do it,
but maybe there's somebody else


00:23:35:14 - 00:23:37:09
in the new organization
that would be capable


00:23:37:09 - 00:23:40:03
of sitting down with them
and uncovering what they're experiencing.


00:23:41:17 - 00:23:45:15
And, so
I think that's where I would start there.


00:23:46:00 - 00:23:51:18
And then as much as we can have
that conversation to address their fear


00:23:51:18 - 00:23:53:15
and concern, in addition


00:23:53:15 - 00:23:56:15
to tying it back to what they care about,
what they're compensated on.


00:23:56:18 - 00:23:59:22
So we're trying to get to,
some tactical piece


00:23:59:22 - 00:24:00:17
within there.


00:24:02:23 - 00:24:05:21
And then the other is around


00:24:05:21 - 00:24:09:06
with for training
specifically, training”s tuff.


00:24:09:13 - 00:24:11:02
Training takes time.


00:24:11:02 - 00:24:13:18
And the incremental value added
by training is difficult


00:24:13:18 - 00:24:16:18
to assess, if not impossible.


00:24:17:02 - 00:24:20:20
I'm actually in a conversation
with, the fortune 500 company right now,


00:24:20:20 - 00:24:23:20
and they just asked me a question around
how do we,


00:24:23:24 - 00:24:27:06
how do we determine
if if training is actually working or not?


00:24:28:01 - 00:24:31:06
It's one other path,
but it's very difficult to,


00:24:31:14 - 00:24:33:19
to prove that training is working.


00:24:33:19 - 00:24:34:12
So when I think about


00:24:34:12 - 00:24:38:10
bringing training into a company,
I think about it being there.


00:24:38:10 - 00:24:39:17
Two criteria.


00:24:39:17 - 00:24:41:17
One is it needs to be bite sized.


00:24:41:17 - 00:24:44:24
So in the training that I've created
recently, they're one hour long.


00:24:45:15 - 00:24:48:02
To dedicate one hour.


00:24:48:02 - 00:24:53:07
And then the intent is to promote practice.
What you learn in that session,


00:24:53:18 - 00:24:57:10
most times
it's almost completely useless to


00:24:57:10 - 00:24:58:14
(unintelligible)


00:24:58:18 - 00:25:00:02
the way of phrasing it.


00:25:00:02 - 00:25:03:06
But when you lose 90%
of what we learn in the first week,


00:25:03:06 - 00:25:04:11
if we don't practice it.


00:25:06:10 - 00:25:07:18
That's just it.


00:25:07:18 - 00:25:10:09
It's it's, I don't know.


00:25:10:09 - 00:25:12:05
And it might be an overstatement
to say it's a fact,


00:25:12:05 - 00:25:14:11
but there's strong evidence
to support that


00:25:14:11 - 00:25:18:04
if we don't practice, what we learn,
it's not very helpful to us.


00:25:18:19 - 00:25:21:10
So when I think about bringing it
to a leader,


00:25:21:10 - 00:25:23:00
I think about it being bite sized.


00:25:23:00 - 00:25:27:13
So can they just show up and then learn
something new, a single skill,


00:25:27:17 - 00:25:31:00
and then they go practice that immediately
afterwards with their team.


00:25:31:09 - 00:25:34:09
And then it has to have
a direct applicability to how,


00:25:34:19 - 00:25:36:12
their teams are compensated


00:25:36:12 - 00:25:39:12
so that they have interest
in bringing that to their teams.


00:25:39:22 - 00:25:42:22
Yeah, I can imagine the fear,


00:25:43:10 - 00:25:47:23
can be ameliorated with the desire
to have their product


00:25:47:23 - 00:25:51:13
or whatever their, you know,
business is centered around thriving


00:25:51:24 - 00:25:55:11
and then really kind of
getting that information, like,


00:25:55:19 - 00:25:59:08
because this environment
is not psychologically safe,


00:25:59:08 - 00:26:03:04
that's one of the main reasons
why you're not seeing the numbers


00:26:03:04 - 00:26:03:24
that you're seeing.


00:26:03:24 - 00:26:07:22
So perhaps that can be a,
you know, an incentive for them.


00:26:08:03 - 00:26:12:05
And then I think, you know,
that opens up that possibility for them


00:26:12:05 - 00:26:16:12
to have a little self reflection
on the type of environment


00:26:17:05 - 00:26:21:06
that they're promoting or that they're
creating, and especially when it's a done


00:26:21:06 - 00:26:26:02
in a kind and compassionate way
where you know, you really like you


00:26:26:14 - 00:26:29:17
acknowledging that they're human


00:26:29:17 - 00:26:33:16
and that we all really want and need this.
Then that helps


00:26:33:16 - 00:26:37:18
to lower down their defense
and allows them to then


00:26:38:03 - 00:26:41:03
be receptive to improving their company.


00:26:41:14 - 00:26:44:00
This is all super fascinating, and


00:26:44:00 - 00:26:47:00
I think so many people need this training


00:26:47:03 - 00:26:51:12
in any organization that they're involved
in, even if it's something small


00:26:51:12 - 00:26:56:03
with just a few, employees. Right
now, we're out of time for this


00:26:56:03 - 00:27:00:02
half of this podcast interview,
but we will be coming back for


00:27:00:02 - 00:27:03:24
the second half of this amazing interview,


00:27:04:18 - 00:27:08:11
with, author and corporate whisperer.


00:27:08:24 - 00:27:11:14
And, please
forgive me if I say your name wrong.


00:27:11:14 - 00:27:14:02
Please say your last name again
for me. So I say it right.


00:27:15:14 - 00:27:16:07
Moerlein.


00:27:16:20 - 00:27:17:12
More line.


00:27:17:12 - 00:27:18:13
Okay.


00:27:18:13 - 00:27:23:00
so we will be back with corporate
whisperer David Moerlein.


00:27:23:00 - 00:27:24:24
Thank you so much for joining us.


00:27:27:03 - 00:27:31:01
Thanks for tuning into the ANEW Body Insight podcast.


00:27:31:08 - 00:27:34:20
Please remember, the content shared on this podcast is for entertainment


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purposes only and does not constitute medical advice.


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You can find us anywhere


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podcasts are streaming on YouTube @my.anew.insight


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and at anew-insight. com


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 under the ANEW Body Insight podcast tab.


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Follow us on our socials @my.anew.insight on Facebook,


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for more updates. Tune in next time and evolve with us.